1. SubscriberFMF
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    01 Apr '12 12:27
    "A survey carried out by BBC Newsround on its 40th anniversary has suggested that just over 50% of today's school children know the Lord's Prayer by heart, as opposed to 90% in 1972. Are today's pupils missing out? Anastasia De Waal, Social policy analyst and head of family and education at the think tank Civitas and Cole Moreton, broadcaster and author of Is God Still An Englishman?, debate."

    6 minute podcast from BBC Radio 4's "Today" programme.

    http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/today/today_20120331-1224a.mp3
  2. Joined
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    01 Apr '12 12:34
    Originally posted by FMF
    "A survey carried out by BBC Newsround on its 40th anniversary has suggested that just over 50% of today's school children know the Lord's Prayer by heart, as opposed to 90% in 1972. Are today's pupils missing out? Anastasia De Waal, Social policy analyst and head of family and education at the think tank Civitas and Cole Moreton, broadcaster and author of Is Go ...[text shortened]... programme.

    http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/today/today_20120331-1224a.mp3
    I have let to listen to the podcast, but my first thoughts are that they aren't missing out. It is progress.
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    01 Apr '12 12:40
    Originally posted by FMF
    "A survey carried out by BBC Newsround on its 40th anniversary has suggested that just over 50% of today's school children know the Lord's Prayer by heart, as opposed to 90% in 1972. Are today's pupils missing out? Anastasia De Waal, Social policy analyst and head of family and education at the think tank Civitas and Cole Moreton, broadcaster and author of Is Go ...[text shortened]... programme.

    http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/today/today_20120331-1224a.mp3
    I am moderately amazed that the number of kids who know it by heart is that high.

    Then again that was the prayer that was said at the end of assembly every day so
    I suppose it shouldn't be that surprising that half the kids end up memorising it.

    This is the version we had I think...

    Our Father who art in heaven,
    hallowed be thy name.
    Thy kingdom come.
    Thy will be done
    on earth as it is in heaven.
    Give us this day our daily bread,
    and forgive us our trespasses,
    as we forgive those who trespass against us,
    and lead us not into temptation,
    but deliver us from evil.
    For thine is the kingdom,
    and the power, and the glory,
    for ever and ever.
    Amen


    Although we came up with a number of, lets say unauthorised, versions we would say instead.
  4. SubscriberFMF
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    01 Apr '12 12:48
    I kind of like the fact that I still know it. I also think that the contribution to - and role of - Christianity in British culture and its history makes having a fairly clear idea of what - at least - the NT is about and what it says and how it has shaped people and movements etc., undoubtedly beneficial to anyone wanting to study things like history and sociology in any depth. I do not regret for one moment the fact that I have read the bible cover to cover, and the NT part more than once.
  5. SubscriberFMF
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    01 Apr '12 12:59
    Here it is in Indonesian:

    Bapa kami yang ada di Surga,
    dimuliakanlah nama-Mu.
    Datanglah kerajaan-Mu, jadilah kehendak-Mu,
    di atas bumi seperti di dalam surga.
    Berilah kami rejeki pada hari ini,
    dan ampunilah kesalahan kami seperti kami pun mengampuni
    yang bersalah kepada kami.
    Dan janganlah masukkan kami ke dalam percobaan,
    tetapi bebaskanlah kami dari yang jahat.
    Amin.

    Here it is translated by Google Translate into English:

    Our Father in Heaven,
    dimuliakanlah thy name.
    Thy kingdom come, thy will be done,
    on earth as in heaven.
    Give us a fortune today,
    and forgive our sins as we forgive
    the fault to us.
    And let us enter into the experiment,
    but deliver us from evil.
    Amin.
  6. Joined
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    01 Apr '12 14:03
    Originally posted by FMF
    I kind of like the fact that I still know it. I also think that the contribution to - and role of - Christianity in British culture and its history makes having a fairly clear idea of what - at least - the NT is about and what it says and how it has shaped people and movements etc., undoubtedly beneficial to anyone wanting to study things like history and sociol ...[text shortened]... r one moment the fact that I have read the bible cover to cover, and the NT part more than once.
    I agree that if you want to study history, politics, or current events it is clearly useful to have a
    knowledge and understanding of the beliefs that drive people and inform their decisions.
    And that knowledge of the religions people believe in is obviously part of that.

    However you don't need to have the lords prayer (or any other) memorised to be able to do that.

    I have not read the bible cover to cover because I don't need to to do what I do or understand current
    events. And the stupidities and evils in the bible piss me off to much to read it cover to cover without having
    some pressing need to do so.
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    01 Apr '12 14:04
    Originally posted by FMF
    Here it is in Indonesian:

    Bapa kami yang ada di Surga,
    dimuliakanlah nama-Mu.
    Datanglah kerajaan-Mu, jadilah kehendak-Mu,
    di atas bumi seperti di dalam surga.
    Berilah kami rejeki pada hari ini,
    dan ampunilah kesalahan kami seperti kami pun mengampuni
    yang bersalah kepada kami.
    Dan janganlah masukkan kami ke dalam percobaan,
    tetapi bebaskanlah kami dar ...[text shortened]... rgive
    the fault to us.
    And let us enter into the experiment,
    but deliver us from evil.
    Amin.
    I suspect google translate takes some of the poetry out of it "😉
  8. SubscriberFMF
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    01 Apr '12 14:11
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    I suspect google translate takes some of the poetry out of it "😉
    Well the Indonesian version is the real thing and it's nice enough. Actually, the Google gag I wanted to pull was to go Indonesian > Estonian > Urdu > Finnish > Portuguese > Korean > Swedish > Afrikaans > English but it didn't deteriorate much - most likely because it is a bog standard dollop of text that has probably been used to tweak the translation capacity by way of comparisons. In 2010 for the World Cup I produced a 'guide' to the teams and players in both English and Indonesian and stashed it at a favourite bar of mine. It was a real hoot. Both versions had been mangled through 6-7 languages using a browser based translation tool and the result was sublimely mystifying texts that had deviated from the original, to put it mildly.
  9. Joined
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    01 Apr '12 14:15
    Originally posted by FMF
    Well the Indonesian version is the real thing and it's nice enough. Actually, the Google gag I wanted to pull was to go Indonesian > Estonian > Urdu > Finnish > Portuguese > Korean > Swedish > Afrikaans > English but it didn't deteriorate much - most likely because it is a bog standard dollop of text that has probably been used to tweak the translation capacity ...[text shortened]... result was sublimely mystifying texts that had deviated from the original, to put it mildly.
    Heh. :-)
    In the future maybe the phrase wont be Chinese whispers it will be google whispers?
  10. Standard memberhakima
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    01 Apr '12 15:14
    Here it is sung in Syriac-Aramaic, the common language of Jesus' time:

    YouTube


    Abwoon d'bwashmaya

    Nethqadash shmakh

    Teytey malkuthakh

    Nehwey tzevyanach
    aykanna d'bwashmaya aph b'arha.

    Hawvlan lachma d'sunqanan yaomana.

    Washboqlan khaubayn (wakhtahayn)aykana daph khnan shbwoqan l'khayyabayn.

    Wela tahlan l'nesyuna

    Ela patzan min bisha.

    Metol dilakhie malkutha wahayla wateshbukhta l'ahlam almin.

    Ameyn.


    and a transliteration from the sounds, roots and culture of the words of the Aramaic version:

    O Birther! Father-Mother of the Cosmos, you create all that moves in light.

    O Thou! The Breathing Life of all,
    Creator of the Shimmering Sound that touches us.

    Respiration of all worlds, we hear You breathing - in and out - in silence.

    Source of Sound in the roar and the whisper, in the breeze and the whirlwind, we hear Your Name.

    Radiant One: You shine within us, outside us - even darkness shines - when we remember.

    Name of names, our small identity unravels in You. You give it back as a lesson.

    Wordless Action, Silent Potency - where ears and eyes awaken, there heaven comes.

    O Birther! Father-Mother of the Cosmos!

    Ameyn



    May all beings be blessed!

    Hakima
  11. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    01 Apr '12 19:45
    Originally posted by FMF
    "A survey carried out by BBC Newsround on its 40th anniversary has suggested that just over 50% of today's school children know the Lord's Prayer by heart, as opposed to 90% in 1972. Are today's pupils missing out? Anastasia De Waal, Social policy analyst and head of family and education at the think tank Civitas and Cole Moreton, broadcaster and author of Is Go ...[text shortened]... programme.

    http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/today/today_20120331-1224a.mp3
    I am a US citizen who supports separation of church and state as mandated by our Constitution. I am not in favor of government endorsement of any religion, through schools or otherwise. There is a line to be drawn. Having classes on religious studies, examining the historical development of various religions and their impact on various societies is OK. Having a teacher lead the whole class in a forced recitation of a religious prayer is not.
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