Our culture has accepted two huge lies

@dj2becker said
If you intend to say that it is always possible for you to trace the origin of a lie you should maybe go and offer your services to the FBI.

It seems you do not know who was the source of a supposed deliberate deception that has resulted in opinions you think are mistaken and yet you insist on referring to them as "lies", why? Because you have a different opinion?

@dj2becker said
It's not my quote, maybe save your ramblings for someone who actually used the word 'lie' in the context it was used in?

Do you think this proposition is a "lie"?

[1] if you disagree with someone’s lifestyle you must fear or hate them

Do you think this proposition is a "lie"?

[2] to love someone means you agree with everything they believe or do

@fmf said
It seems you do not know who was the source of a supposed deliberate deception that has resulted in opinions you think are mistaken and yet you insist on referring to them as "lies", why? Because you have a different opinion?

If the word 'untruth' were used instead of 'lie' would that make you happy? The words are synonyms by the way and may be used interchangeably. You clearly don't seem to like it when the word 'lie' is used as a synonym for 'untruth'. I find that quite fascinating for someone whose world view is built upon relative truth.

@fmf said
Do you think this proposition is a "lie"?

[1] if you disagree with someone’s lifestyle you must fear or hate them

Do you think this proposition is a "lie"?

[2] to love someone means you agree with everything they believe or do

If by 'lie' you mean 'untrue' then yes I don't believe the propositions to be true all the time. In some cases it may however be true for some people.

@dj2becker said
If the word 'untruth' were used instead of 'lie' would that make you happy?

"Untruth" would be OK. "Mistake" would be OK. "Wrongheadedness" would be OK. For me, in a discussion about people's subjective opinions, a "lie" is a statement that is known or believed - by the person who makes it - to be false and the statement is made in order to deceive others.

@dj2becker said
You clearly don't seem to like it when the word 'lie' is used as a synonym for 'untruth'.

Shorn of its 'intent to deceive' meaning, I think the word "lie" - the way you use it - is just propagandizing.

@dj2becker said
I can understand why the word 'lie' seems to bamboozle you within a framework of relative truth.

I am being very clear about how I feel the word "lie" should be used and I understand exactly what is going on when you use it [like with your little children and their maths quiz]. I am not "bamboozled" by the topic at all.

@fmf said
"Untruth" would be OK. "Mistake" would be OK. "Wrongheadedness" would be OK. For me, in a discussion about people's subjective opinions, a "lie" is a statement that is known or believed - by the person who makes it - to be false and the statement is made in order to deceive others.

I get that. I also get that the word lie can be used to simply mean untruth. You clearly don’t seem to get that.

@fmf said
I am being very clear about how I feel the word "lie" should be used and I understand exactly what is going on when you use it [like with your little children and their maths quiz]. I am not "bamboozled" by the topic at all.

The way I see it is if you genuinely thought that I used the math quiz as an example but I hadn’t in fact, (and I believe that to be untrue) I could still perceive you to be lying even though I have no idea whether your intention is to deliberately deceive or not. According to some dictionary definitions you would be lying if you uttered an untruth even if your intention was not to deceive because obviously the word lie can be used as a synonym for untruth. Which is something you would probably deny even if I showed it to you in a dictionary because you can’t seem to admit to making mistakes.

@fmf said
Shorn of its 'intent to deceive' meaning, I think the word "lie" - the way you use it - is just propagandizing.

Maybe you should write a letter to the authors of the dictionary and tell them to omit the word untruth as a synonym for lie.

@dj2becker said
The way I see it is if you genuinely thought that I used the math quiz as an example but I hadn’t in fact, (and I believe that to be untrue) I could still perceive you to be lying even though I have no idea whether your intention is to deliberately deceive or not.

This does not explain your bizarre use of the word "lies" to refer to the incorrect answers on a children's quiz.

@dj2becker said
Maybe you should write a letter to the authors of the dictionary and tell them to omit the word untruth as a synonym for lie.

Dictionaries include long lists of all kinds of possible applications of words. To think you can take any one of them and always apply it regardless of the nature of the situation or context, is not a sign of good literacy. I have made my objection to your meaning-rinsing use of the word "lie" and I have no doubt the authors of a dictionary would regard your application of it in the way you do - to refer to things you think are wrong - as an example of the word being used in a propagandizing role.

@dj2becker said
I also get that the word lie can be used to simply mean untruth.

Maybe in some idiomatic or colloquial or literary ways, which a dictionary also lists by obligation, but I cannot see how it can be applied to opinions one disagrees with except as a kind emotional indicator as to one's attitude to dissent.

@fmf said
This does not explain your bizarre use of the word "lies" to refer to the incorrect answers on a children's quiz.

What are you on about?

@fmf said
Dictionaries include long lists of all kinds of possible applications of words. To think you can take any one of them and always apply it regardless of the nature of the situation or context, is not a sign of good literacy. I have made my objection to your meaning-rinsing use of the word "lie" and I have no doubt the authors of a dictionary would regard your application of it in ...[text shortened]... refer to things you think are wrong - as an example of the word being used in a propagandizing role.

You are entitled to your subjective opinions.