please god

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Hi Robbie,

[b]"but it would be a cultural tragedy if our sons had to bear the brunt of another
1966 and live with it for the duration of their life times!"

It's just a game of football, they should not let it upset them so.
Most people who cause all the trouble and boil up the hatred never go to games.

As for '66, it's now a running joke ...[text shortened]... ut it.

I would certainly not have written a book accepting the responsibility.[/b]

sure thing Gp, never the less a little bit of impartiality goes a long way and had the BBC and other broadcasters refrained from terming the whole of the uk as 'we', when in fact they meant England, we would not feel so marginalised. Its just so annoying we dont have an independent media in Scotland, in fact i listen to an Irish station, dont know what it is, longwave 252 or something, just to avoid the bias.

Originally posted by trev33
thank you

All praise the Lord !

Will you be the one that at last converts me ?
Take note of this you theist bunch : all you need is a good argument, and this one is much sounder than saint-Anselm's.

By the way, as a soon-to-be christian, is it bad if i take joy in my fellow countrymen,'s failure and sorrow ? after all i share the joy of so many other people in the world ! (although for different reasons : no more shouting neighbours and stupid chauvinistic craze for this silly sport !)

Hi Robbie.

That is a wind up. Scottish when they fail, British when they win.

It's an old commentators trick to get feedback.
It started off as a slip of the tongue, then they saw what happened.

Feedback means people are listening so they can show their producers.

It's always about the money Robbie, follow the money.

Originally posted by josephw
Incredibly spiritual thread. 😀

People can be very proud of their idol worship.

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Hi Robbie,

[b]"but it would be a cultural tragedy if our sons had to bear the brunt of another
1966 and live with it for the duration of their life times!"

It's just a game of football, they should not let it upset them so.
Most people who cause all the trouble and boil up the hatred never go to games.

As for '66, it's now a running joke ut it.

I would certainly not have written a book accepting the responsibility.[/b]

What came first, your opinion or the world? - any one of sound mind would tell you the world was here well before your opinion, your opinion stands for very little when you consider it could not create life....so much happened in the creating of and the history of the world that your opinion could not possibly fathom, that is why you need to trust God.

you want to speak trash into your life then that is what you will be....then you choose to speak the negative trash into your life, that is a perfect example why you need God working for you in your life.....

when the path you are on is getting dark and your failing to see God then that is an indication that you are going the wrong way, Gods love is the light of this world....you have the choice, stay in the dark where Satan dwells or turn to God.

Satan is the master of lies and deciept, trashing everything that is good, trashing peoples minds with negative thoughts, tempting you into evil, but we come against him ... he must flee in Gods light.

Gods creation is wonderful...God is amaizing, how all this came to be, all out of nothing, how incredible... he would even fix your bad attitude for you if you turned to him?, , but all that junk talk is not helping to fix things is it? it is simply adding more problems to your way of thinking...turn up to church, read the Good book, and keep reading it, it is a tool to fix all your doubts and mis-understandings, Gods word it is full of love and righteousness and truth, it is a wonderful tool to help correct you, and heal you...I use to have a doubtful mind like you before I found the truth...

God Loves all people, however its the people who have turned against him,, it is his creation so who does man think he is to tell God what the rules should be?

Because God loves his people so much he sent his son Jesus, so that any man who chooses with his free will to believe in him will be saved.

Jesus is Lord....the answers to your constant questions are not found at football games, or in fighing wars thats man's doing not Gods, for a full understanding you need to submit yourself to God, open an account with him.... and keep feeding yourself the good word... and if you dont understand it, just keep reading it, eventually it all begins to make sense....I Praise the one who paid my debt....thank you Jesus

Originally posted by jaywill
People can be very proud of their idol worship.

yes like making Jesus Christ, a created entity and part of the creation and turning the son of God into an object of worship and thus idolatry!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes like making Jesus Christ, a created entity and part of the creation and turning the son of God into an object of worship and thus idolatry!

Matt 12:36 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgement for every careless word they have spoken.

Originally posted by barstudd
Matt 12:36 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgement for every careless word they have spoken.

well then i should have absolutely nothing to fear, for there was nothing careless about those words.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes like making Jesus Christ, a created entity and part of the creation and turning the son of God into an object of worship and thus idolatry!

=====================================
yes like making Jesus Christ, a created entity and part of the creation and turning the son of God into an object of worship and thus idolatry!
======================================

That is not what the Apostle John taught. He taught that for the Christians to know Him and be in Him is to know and be in "the true God and eternal life." Far from being an idol Jesus the Son is the God in Whom we Christians walk and know as the true God and eternal life:

"And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding that we might know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

Little children, guard yourselves from idols." (1 John 5:20,21)

Here "the true God and eternal life" as opposed to "idols" is "Him who is true" and "His Son Jesus Christ". The Christians know Him and are in Him - IN HIS SON JESUS CHRIST.

This One is the true God and eternal life.

And Jehovah does not charge the angels with idolatry when He commands them to worship the Firstborn Son:

"And when He brings again the Firstborn into the inhabited earth, He says, And let all the angels of God worship Him." (Hebrews 1:6)

Neither did Jesus rebuke Thomas for worshipping Him as his Lord and his God. Instead He said blessed are those who believe yet who have not seen (John 20:29)

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]=====================================
yes like making Jesus Christ, a created entity and part of the creation and turning the son of God into an object of worship and thus idolatry!
======================================

That is not what the Apostle John taught. He taught that for the Christians to know Him and be in Him is to know and d He said blessed are those who believe yet who have not seen (John 20:29) [/b]

But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all God’s angels do obeisance to him.” Heb 1:6 - New world translation of the Holy Scriptures

please note the phrase 'again', and 'First-born', as in progeny, as to time, meaning of course Christ quite naturally had a beginning, which of course means he was a created being, by God, which is why at Col:1:15 he is described as the Firstborn of all creation. This you know and yet are unable to make the correct evaluation of the verse because of your tradition, stating that it is with reference to his pre-eminent position.

secondly you shall note, the term, 'do obeisance', not worship as has been erroneously and insidiously proffered by you, to support, your idolatrous stance. Perhaps you would like to show us where Christ himself stated that we should worship him? Indeed as far as i can tell, he directed worship towards the father, whom you correctly term, Jehovah. 'Our father in heaven.....', meaning of course that God was the one who gave life to Christ. Getting back, looking at the verse in context with the rest of the Bible we find the same word, as used, in the Septuagint and elsewhere,for example at 2 Kings 2:15 . . .

When the sons of the prophets that were at Jericho saw him some way off, they began to say: “The spirit of Elijah has settled down upon Elisha.” Accordingly they came to meet him and bowed down to him to the earth. . . (did obeisance to him),

therefore in conclusion, you are rendering worship to a created being, Jesus Christ and in doing so you are worshipping the creation rather than the creator, and secondly there is ample textual evidence to suggest that doing obeisance is not an act of worship as one would render to the creator, but indeed a way of showing honour.

But we have been through al of this before Jaywill, it is truly tiresome to do so again, dont you have any words of encouragement for me, some verse that you have researched and found to be of benefit in a practical sense, some insight into Gods personality as seen shining through a verse, some aspect of the Christ's life that i can learn from?

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Hi Robbie,

[b]"but it would be a cultural tragedy if our sons had to bear the brunt of another
1966 and live with it for the duration of their life times!"

It's just a game of football, they should not let it upset them so.
Most people who cause all the trouble and boil up the hatred never go to games.

As for '66, it's now a running joke ...[text shortened]... ut it.

I would certainly not have written a book accepting the responsibility.[/b]

Rec'd.

More of greenpawn's spiritual musings, please!

Originally posted by karoly aczel
BTW Trev, I've come full circle now, even though over at sports I was defending the Henry handball, I am now truly sorry for Ireland...but hey, its hard to get very "international" sometimes when you live way over here😉 (in australia)

i thought they'd do badly but i didn't expect them to implode the way they have, i can't say here wasn't a little smile on my face when i heard the team hadn't trained out of protest at anelkas ejection from the squad. a nice shock defeat to s. africa should round off their world cup nicely. 😉

Originally posted by shorbock
All praise the Lord !

Will you be the one that at last converts me ?
Take note of this you theist bunch : all you need is a good argument, and this one is much sounder than saint-Anselm's.

By the way, as a soon-to-be christian, is it bad if i take joy in my fellow countrymen,'s failure and sorrow ? after all i share the joy of so many other people i ...[text shortened]... nt reasons : no more shouting neighbours and stupid chauvinistic craze for this silly sport !)

if s. africa beat them tomorrow i may have converted myself 😵

is it football that you dislike or simply the french national team?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all God’s angels do obeisance to him.” Heb 1:6 - New world translation of the Holy Scriptures

please note the phrase 'again', and 'First-born', as in progeny, as to time, meaning of course Christ quite naturally had a beginning, which of course means he was a creat s seen shining through a verse, some aspect of the Christ's life that i can learn from?

=====================================
But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all God’s angels do obeisance to him.” Heb 1:6 - New world translation of the Holy Scriptures
=======================================

They translate it that way because they want to soften the effect of what it says, to worship the Son.

==================================
please note the phrase 'again', and 'First-born', as in progeny, as to time, meaning of course Christ quite naturally had a beginning, which of course means he was a created being, by God, which is why at Col:1:15 he is described as the Firstborn of all creation.
==================================

He is called the Firstborn in that passage because He is resurrected as the Firstborn Son of God with many brothers the church:

"And He is the Head of the Body, the church, He is the beginning, the Firstborn from the dead ..." (Col. 1:18)

He is the Firstborn as the Head of a new humanity which is the mingling of God and man. So those saved by this Firstborn are the many "sons", His "brothers" who He is leading into the glorious expression of the mingling of God and man:

For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and through whom are all things, in leading many sons into glory, ..." (Heb. 2:10)

He returns to earth the second time as the Firstborn among many brothers conformed to His image:

" ... those whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers..." (Rom. 8:29)

Christ is also the Firstborn of all creation. But that does not mean He was the first item created as has been shown you before. And that is also not the aspect of Him being the Firstborn in Hebrews 1:6.

================================
This you know and yet are unable to make the correct evaluation of the verse because of your tradition, stating that it is with reference to his pre-eminent position.
===================================

Your tradition seeks to replace God incarnate to be the angel Michael. So this JW doctrine is Russell's twisting to remain in the Old Testament economy. This is your attempt to revolt against the new covenant and go back to the old covenant simply adding some regulations about witnessing for the so-called Jehovah's organization - Watchtower.


secondly you shall note, the term, 'do obeisance', not worship as has been erroneously and insidiously proffered by you, to support, your idolatrous stance.

This view is Watchtower rebellion against the new covenant to fight its way back to the old covenant adding to the ten commandments witnessing for its organization Watchtower.

Christ received worship on at least nine occasions:

1.) from a healed leper (Matt. 8:2)
2.) from a ruler whose son Jesus had healed (Matt. 9:18)
3.) from the disciples after a storm (Matt. 14:33)
4.) from a Canaanite woman (Matt. 15:25)
5.) from the mother of James and John (Matt. 20:20)
6.) from Gerasene demoniac (Mark 5:6)
7.) from a healed blind man (John 9:38)
8.) from all the disciples (Matt. 28:17)
8.) from Thomas, who said, "My Lord and my God" (John 20:28)

==================================
Perhaps you would like to show us where Christ himself stated that we should worship him?
=================================

The nine cases above show He did nothing to stop it.

And in John chapter 4 to offer God true worship is to drink the living water, meaning the Holy Spirit. This is not worship by bowing or any physical posture. This is the true worship of the Father by taking IN the Spirit which is God Himself.

So taking in the Spirit is true worship for God is Spirit. And in the same book Jesus says to come unto HIM and drink:

"Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, If anyone thirst, let him come to ME and drink.

He who believes into Me, as the Scripture said, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.

But this He said concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed into Him were about to receive; for the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified." (John 7:37-39)

Drinking in the Holy Spirit is therefore the true worship of the Triune God. It is the worship of the Father (John 4:24). And we have to come unto Jesus to drink of this Spirit, this living water (John 7:39)

So we can see that the Father, Son, and Spirit are about getting INTO man as a "drink". The true worship is to RECEIVE Christ into our inner being.

You Jehovah's Witnesses know absolutely NOTHING about that. Your worship is in vain because you do not RECEIVE the Spirit and drink God into your being.

God does not, therefore, get into you. You are not saved. And you do not worship God the Spirit in the born again human spirit and in reality.

If you reject Christ as God become a man how can God get INTO your being ?

"But as many as RECEIVED Him, to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name, who were begotten ... of God" (John 1:12,13)

If you wish to worship Jehovah you should RECEIVE Christ into your innermost spirit. You should open your closed being and RECEIVE Jesus Christ to receive divine life:

"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all God’s angels do obeisance to him.” Heb 1:6 - New world translation of the Holy Scriptures

please note the phrase 'again', and 'First-born', as in progeny, as to time, meaning of course Christ quite naturally had a beginning, which of course means he was a creat s seen shining through a verse, some aspect of the Christ's life that i can learn from?

================================
But we have been through al of this before Jaywill, it is truly tiresome to do so again, dont you have any words of encouragement for me, some verse that you have researched and found to be of benefit in a practical sense, some insight into Gods personality as seen shining through a verse, some aspect of the Christ's life that i can learn from?
==================================

Jehovah has to get INTO you. He has to get in on the inside of your innermost being.

All that He did in Christ is for that. His incarnation, His life, His death, His resurrection, His ascension, His becoming a life giving Spirit.

It is all a process by which God can be imparted INTO us. He is not happy with Him being only up there, out there, objective, even as an object of worship.

He wants to get into man as life. God is to be LIVED.

Right here, right here:

"Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23)

The Father IN the Son AS the Holy Spirit - the Divine "WE" will come to the lover of Jesus and make an abode with him.

These words are trustworthy.