1. Standard memberknightmeister
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    22 Dec '07 12:00
    Retired Bishop, John Shelby Spong describes fear and religion. As opposed to false religion that brings security and certainty, true religion is the opposite, not acting as the security in place of fear, with the certainty of theism and religious hierarchy, but as the enabler of the courage to be in spite of in acceptance of anxiety and fear.

    "Security is so seductive, and insecurity is so frightening. But security is always false, and insecurity is always real. No religion can make anyone secure, though it, like the drugs on which our society is so dependent, can give the illusion of security. True religion enables one to grasp life with the radical insecurity and to live it with courage. It does not aid us in the pretense that our insecurities have been taken away."
  2. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    22 Dec '07 12:58
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Retired Bishop, John Shelby Spong describes fear and religion. As opposed to false religion that brings security and certainty, true religion is the opposite, not acting as the security in place of fear, with the certainty of theism and religious hierarchy, but as the enabler of the courage to be in spite of in acceptance of anxiety and fear.

    "Secur ...[text shortened]... with courage. It does not aid us in the pretense that our insecurities have been taken away."
    "Be afraid! It's easier to control you that way!" (Rumsfeld and Cheney, 2001)

    Seriously, if religion is about fear, and not comfort, that's only another reason we need to drive superstition away.
  3. Standard memberknightmeister
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    22 Dec '07 14:551 edit
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    "Be afraid! It's easier to control you that way!" (Rumsfeld and Cheney, 2001)

    Seriously, if religion is about fear, and not comfort, that's only another reason we need to drive superstition away.
    Me thinks you missunderstood the quote (or least interpreted it to suit your own argument) . You have been away so long I had forgotten how adept you were at turning almost anything around to have a jab at religion. You are so much better at it than your peers.
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    22 Dec '07 15:01
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Retired Bishop, John Shelby Spong describes fear and religion. As opposed to false religion that brings security and certainty, true religion is the opposite, not acting as the security in place of fear, with the certainty of theism and religious hierarchy, but as the enabler of the courage to be in spite of in acceptance of anxiety and fear.

    "Secur ...[text shortened]... with courage. It does not aid us in the pretense that our insecurities have been taken away."
    Security does not lie with any religion, it lies with Jesus Christ. You can have security through a relationship with Jesus Christ.
  5. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    22 Dec '07 15:45
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Me thinks you missunderstood the quote (or least interpreted it to suit your own argument) . You have been away so long I had forgotten how adept you were at turning almost anything around to have a jab at religion. You are so much better at it than your peers.
    Gee thanks!

    But, no - really, any credit has to go to religion, and religious people themselves - I am but a mirror.
  6. Standard memberknightmeister
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    22 Dec '07 16:20
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    Gee thanks!

    But, no - really, any credit has to go to religion, and religious people themselves - I am but a mirror.
    Don't bother with "religious" people ( Jesus didn't) , look out for spiritual people . There's a big difference. You will find spiritual people don't look so "religious" and will give you less opportunities to pursue your favourite hobby of ridiculing that which you fear.
  7. Subscriberno1marauder
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    22 Dec '07 16:33
    Originally posted by chappy1
    Security does not lie with any religion, it lies with Jesus Christ. You can have security through a relationship with Jesus Christ.
    Sorry, he's dead. A "relationship" with him will get you a jail sentence in most states.
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    22 Dec '07 16:51
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Sorry, he's dead. A "relationship" with him will get you a jail sentence in most states.
    See that's just the thing, he's NOT dead!
    Merry Christmas 🙂
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    22 Dec '07 16:51
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Don't bother with "religious" people ( Jesus didn't) , look out for spiritual people . There's a big difference. You will find spiritual people don't look so "religious" and will give you less opportunities to pursue your favourite hobby of ridiculing that which you fear.
    Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!😀
  10. Subscriberno1marauder
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    22 Dec '07 16:58
    Originally posted by chappy1
    See that's just the thing, he's NOT dead!
    Merry Christmas 🙂
    Prove it.
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    22 Dec '07 17:19
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Prove it.
    It's already been proven. You need look no further than the Bible. But of course you don't believe in the Bible, do you? How convenient for your point of view.
  12. Subscriberno1marauder
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    22 Dec '07 17:271 edit
    Originally posted by chappy1
    It's already been proven. You need look no further than the Bible. But of course you don't believe in the Bible, do you? How convenient for your point of view.
    How convenient for your point of view that you are deluded enough to think that a mismash of writings lumped together 1700 years ago proves ANYTHING. I "believe in the Bible" in the sense that I believe that the Bible exists but as a "book" - and not a particulary good one.

    I recommend the Tao-te Ching and the Upanishads as books better reflecting spirituality than the history of atrocities and mass murders that is the Old Testament and the collection of letters by people that didn't even know Jesus that mainly comprise the New Testament.
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    22 Dec '07 17:34
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    How convenient for your point of view that you are deluded enough to think that a mismash of writings lumped together 1700 years ago proves ANYTHING. I "believe in the Bible" in the sense that I believe that the Bible exists but as a "book" - and not a particulary good one.

    I recommend the Tao-te Ching and the Upanishads as books better refle ...[text shortened]... on of letters by people that didn't even know Jesus that mainly comprise the New Testament.
    If thats how you feel then you don't truely understand what has been written.
  14. Standard memberknightmeister
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    23 Dec '07 18:53
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Sorry, he's dead. A "relationship" with him will get you a jail sentence in most states.
    You already have a relationship with Jesus. You have told him he is dead and that you don't believe he is there.
  15. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    23 Dec '07 18:59
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Don't bother with "religious" people ( Jesus didn't) , look out for spiritual people . There's a big difference. You will find spiritual people don't look so "religious" and will give you less opportunities to pursue your favourite hobby of ridiculing that which you fear.
    You're religious. Chappy1 is religious. Look it up.
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