1. Joined
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    08 Dec '05 11:25
    Since I don't believe in God, I have no reason to expect that I will be taken into a perfectly tempered, celestial quarter close to Him when I die. I've come to realize that, unless you are remembered and talked about, you will have been completely removed from existence once you die.

    This may be uncomforting thoughts for those who wish to leave an impression or simply believe there's a meaning to their whole existence (other than to procreate).

    Maybe - and don't take me literally here - it's better to be remembered as a Hitler than to not be remembered at all? At least Hitler, Saddam and Bush will probably always be remembered and talked about, while puny people like myself will probably be forever forgotten as soon as my closest friends and relatives join me in the void we all refer to as death (which of course is also completely void of company since it's... well.. a void of existence).

    So, what am I saying here?
  2. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
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    08 Dec '05 12:12
    Originally posted by stocken
    Since I don't believe in God, I have no reason to expect that I will be taken into a perfectly tempered, celestial quarter close to Him when I die. I've come to realize that, unless you are remembered and talked about, you will have been completely removed from existence once you die.

    This may be uncomforting thoughts for those who wish to leave an impr ...[text shortened]... letely void of company since it's... well.. a void of existence).

    So, what am I saying here?
    What good does it do you to be remembered? You're still just as dead.

    As Woody Allen said, "I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to acheive it through not dying."
  3. Joined
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    08 Dec '05 12:21
    Originally posted by rwingett
    What good does it do you to be remembered? You're still just as dead.

    As Woody Allen said, "I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to acheive it through not dying."
    Good point. Since not dying is not an option at the present, the only way to leave an impression on the world is to do something that will always be remembered.

    The question is: is there any real considerations to be made as to how far one can go to be remembered?

    Judging from reading history books and studying media coverage, clearly the only way to make an everlasting (or at least a long time lasting) impression is to do something horrible and/or disgusting that affects a lot (A LOT) of people in a very bad way.

    Most people don't even know about Oscar Schindler (despite the great movie), yet everyone knows about Hitler. Isn't that peculiar? An ambitious person then, would do best to be as horrible as (s)he possibly can be.
  4. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    08 Dec '05 12:33
    Originally posted by stocken
    Good point. Since not dying is not an option at the present, the only way to leave an impression on the world is to do something that will always be remembered.

    The question is: is there any real considerations to be made as to how far one can go to be remembered?

    Judging from reading history books and studying media coverage, clearly the only way to m ...[text shortened]... at peculiar? An ambitious person then, would do best to be as horrible as (s)he possibly can be.
    How many people remember Albert Fish? Or Andrew Kehoe? Or Nathan Leopold and Richard Loeb? Obviously some people do, but those names will not resonate with most people. They are notorious criminals who have largely been forgotten.

    Now, who remembers Albert Einstein? Or Florence Nightengale? Or Jonas Salk? These people are remembered for the positive contributions they made to society.

    There is no truth to your assertion that you need to do something dastardly to be remembered. Most of the time your notoriety will be fleeting.
  5. Joined
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    08 Dec '05 12:41
    Originally posted by rwingett
    How many people remember Albert Fish? Or Andrew Kehoe? Or Nathan Leopold and Richard Loeb? Obviously some people do, but those names will not resonate with most people. They are notorious criminals who have largely been forgotten.

    Now, who remembers Albert Einstein? Or Florence Nightengale? Or Jonas Salk? These people are remembered for the positive con ...[text shortened]... ed to do something dastardly to be remembered. Most of the time your notoriety will be fleeting.
    Aaaah, thank you for setting me straight, here. So, to leave an everlasting impression on the world, it's not really about being good or bad. It's about being exceptionally good or bad. To be the worst or best (whatever that means) one can possibly be and to be better than everyone else in the same field of expertise.

    I give up. 😀 Being the medioker person I am, I have absolutely no hope of being remembered in history, good or bad. Let's hope someone does find the solution to not dying. That does sound better than dying and be forever forgotten.

    Well, this certainly was a short-lived thread... 😀
  6. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    08 Dec '05 13:05
    Originally posted by stocken
    Aaaah, thank you for setting me straight, here. So, to leave an everlasting impression on the world, it's not really about being good or bad. It's about being exceptionally good or bad. To be the worst or best (whatever that means) one can possibly be and to be better than everyone else in the same field of expertise.

    I give up. 😀 Being the medioker pe ...[text shortened]... tter than dying and be forever forgotten.

    Well, this certainly was a short-lived thread... 😀
    Almost no one will be remembered by everyone. Claude Monet was the pinnacle of French Impressionism and most people could tell you who he was. Alfred Sisley was also a French Impressionist painter. He is far less well known by the general public, but is fairly well known within the art world. Maximilien Luce, on the other hand, is a very obscure French painter who is known to very few people. There have been artists of even less reknown whose work has been preserved for posterity. Each one is known to a more and more specialized audience, but somebody still remembers them.

    But that is how it stands at the present time. In 100 years how many people will still remember Monet? How about in 1,000 years? Or 10,000 years? When the sun goes super-nova, who will be around to remember anyone at that point? As George Harrison opined, "All Things Must Pass." The truth is that it doesn't do you any good to be remembered, except, perhaps, by your closest relatives and friends. Once they've died, it doesn't really matter anymore. Far better to just concentrate on the time you've got available in the here and now.
  7. Joined
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    08 Dec '05 13:15
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Almost no one will be remembered by everyone. Claude Monet was the pinnacle of French Impressionism and most people could tell you who he was. Alfred Sisley was also a French Impressionist painter. He is far less well known by the general public, but is fairly well known within the art world. Maximilien Luce, on the other hand, is a very obscure French pain ...[text shortened]... r anymore. Far better to just concentrate on the time you've got available in the here and now.
    In fact, come to think about it. Imortality itself is a futile pursuit unless one is concious. You're absolutely right when you quote Woody. What matters is the here and now, and not what happens after we're gone.

    If we can bring positive things to the people around us, then that will be the meaning for us living (that and procreation); to have a positive effect on the ones around us. It makes for a very boring thread, though.

    This thread, is hereby officially declared pointless unless someone has anything new to say on the subject. 🙂
  8. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    08 Dec '05 13:26
    Originally posted by stocken
    In fact, come to think about it. Imortality itself is a futile pursuit unless one is concious. You're absolutely right when you quote Woody. What matters is the here and now, and not what happens after we're gone.

    If we can bring positive things to the people around us, then that will be the meaning for us living (that and procreation); to have a positi ...[text shortened]... s hereby officially declared pointless unless someone has anything new to say on the subject. 🙂
    This thread may be dead, but I'll always remember it fondly. 🙂
  9. Joined
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    08 Dec '05 21:10
    Originally posted by rwingett
    This thread may be dead, but I'll always remember it fondly. 🙂
    🙂
  10. England
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    09 Dec '05 15:46
    post your own epitath here then all can read it and remember you
  11. Joined
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    09 Dec '05 17:05
    Originally posted by rwingett
    What good does it do you to be remembered? You're still just as dead.

    As Woody Allen said, "I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to acheive it through not dying."
    I agree that being remembered is not worth much but I think that living on though your work is something different because this means you have made part of yourself immortal. For example: The music that Bach wrote 400 years ago is still listened to today and stil influences other composers. The philosophical works that plato wrote more then 2000 years ago still influences modern philosophers. Of course plato is not consciously aware of it when he's teaching philosophy to us but as long as his philosophy lives on a part of what made him plato lives on.
  12. Territories Unknown
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    09 Dec '05 17:10
    Originally posted by stocken
    So, what am I saying here?
    I forget.
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