Rev 14:9-11 literal or not?

-Removed-

"You’ve been duped by the people who told you that it was literally true."

What's the point?
What the scriptures say is the point.

What a twist you've put on what it says. You don't believe it, so then it doesn't mean what it says, then you accuse me of believing what others say it means when what it means is what it says.

You're the duped one.

Here's an example of your nice guy Jesus from the scriptures:
"And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;"

And;

You say you believe Jesus is God, well, God destroys as evidenced by "...Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." And, "To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him."

Let's go on: "It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city."
"But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."
"...and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:"
",..reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."
"...who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?"
"So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest."

Just scratching the surface.

Your nice guy Jesus isn't the Jesus, that when he returns, will judge and destroy the ungodly wicked.

-Removed-

Well I guess, if it was actually literal, you are missing an opportunity as a Christian to save your non believing friends from eternal suffering.

@josephw said
Your nice guy Jesus isn't the Jesus, that when he returns, will judge and destroy the ungodly wicked.

But Revelation 14:9-119-11 [the OP] says the "ungodly wicked" you mention will be "tortured with fire and burning sulfur". Meanwhile, you say that they will be "destroyed" rather than "tortured". Which is it to be?

-Removed-

I think churches misinterpret this word 'loving' and 'love', by equating it with what humans call love. In the Greek there are 3 kinds of love, Eros, Philos and Agape, physical, friendly and sacrificial respectively. God and Christ loves with the Agape love. Its all about sacrifice. This confusion has caused churches to refer to 'intimate' and 'personal' relationship with God without applying the correct meaning to that relationship. It cannot and should not be confused with personal relationship with another human.

The bible is crystal clear on that point. Gods agape love will not save anyone who lives a life of sin and evil despite being born again and saved by Christ. There remains no more sacrifice for sins ... For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrews 10:26-27 KJV)

If you accept the parts of the bible that speaks of the love of God providing a sacrifice for sins through Christ, your analysis is faulty if you ignore the consequences of living contrary to the laws of God.

@josephw said

Your nice guy Jesus isn't the Jesus, that when he returns, will judge and destroy the ungodly wicked.

That includes professed Christians, who claim to be born again and saved. God is no respecter of persons. All people will be judged by their works.

@fmf said
Given the manipulative nature of Revelations, it's no wonder the writer or writers wanted the metaphorical mumbo jumbo to be perceived as literally true. And, oh look, they declared their words to be "trustworthy and true", too. There, in the text.

And exactly why must we take as a given "the manipulative nature of Revelations"?

If your given is in error, what does that say about the rest of your argument? Exactly.

If you don't take the text of Revelation to be true, so what? It's an issue for you, not me. Calling it "manipulative" doesn't change that, it only highlights the degree to which you think it's false, and believe me, we got that the first time around. You didn't have to resort to hyperbole to get us to believe you when you say you don't believe the text.

@josephw said
"You’ve been duped by the people who told you that it was literally true."

What's the point?
What the scriptures say is the point.

What a twist you've put on what it says. You don't believe it, so then it doesn't mean what it says, then you accuse me of believing what others say it means when what it means is what it says.

You're the duped one.

Here's an exampl ...[text shortened]... our nice guy Jesus isn't the Jesus, that when he returns, will judge and destroy the ungodly wicked.

None of this makes it okay for those of us who will be judged to presume to sit in judgement of our fellows, nor to encourage others to presume to sit in judgement of others.

And certainly, using scripture in this manner of presuming judgement seems a sin of its own.

-Removed-

Im with you on that. Anyone who promotes that doctrine cannot in their mind appreciate the meaning of 'eternity'. A man with a 70 yr lifespan has no clue what that means.