Revelation 12

Originally posted by @suzianne
How many of Leo's stars are actually visible to the naked eye?

9 sounds like it could be close.

9 are more visible sure. Does that negate the millions that are less visible to the naked eye?

Freaky's casual statement that the constellation of Leo contains 9 stars is incorrect.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
9 are more visible sure. Does that negate the millions that are less visible to the naked eye?

Freaky's casual statement that the constellation of Leo contains 9 stars is incorrect.

It is generally depicted as containing nine, despite your claim otherwise.

Originally posted by @freakykbh
It is generally depicted as containing nine, despite your claim otherwise.

To those with poor eyesight perhaps.

To reduce the millions of stars in the constellation of Leo to 9 is akin to reducing the billions of human beings on Earth to the 12 signs of the zodiac.

(It does though fit the pattern of how you view the world around you. Can't see the curvature of the Earth with your own eyes, must be flat. Can't see gravity with your own eyes, doesn't exist. Not there to witness a terrorist atrocity with your own eyes, didn't happen. Not there to witness man walk on the moon, never happened. Can't see the fainter stars in the constellation of Leo,...can only be 9).

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
To those with poor eyesight perhaps.

To reduce the millions of stars in the constellation of Leo to 9 is akin to reducing the billions of human beings on Earth to the 12 signs of the zodiac.

(It does though fit the pattern of how you view the world around you. Can't see the curvature of the Earth with your own eyes, must be flat. Can't see gra ...[text shortened]... moon, never happened. Can't see the fainter stars in the constellation of Leo,...can only be 9).

*closes eyes > can't see your post > it doesn't exist*

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
To those with poor eyesight perhaps.

To reduce the millions of stars in the constellation of Leo to 9 is akin to reducing the billions of human beings on Earth to the 12 signs of the zodiac.

(It does though fit the pattern of how you view the world around you. Can't see the curvature of the Earth with your own eyes, must be flat. Can't see gra ...[text shortened]... moon, never happened. Can't see the fainter stars in the constellation of Leo,...can only be 9).

My good manReveal Hidden Content, you do realize that science must contain the element of observation, yes?
Not only that, the results need to be repeatable, correct?
And falsifiable, agreed?
Excellent.
My evidence for a non-globe, possibly-and-most-likely flat earth is based upon such factual verifiable elements.
NASA's lies speak for themselves.

By your way of thinking, there are no constellations, since all of the stars are in the sky, and since we can't exclude some of them, we must include all of them.

From antiquity, Leo has been represented by nine stars.
On the date in question, Venus, Mercury and Mars form a syzygy immediately below the nine prominent stars of Leo, affecting a crown for the Virgo below his outline.
Similar alignments have occurred in the past, all of them repeating other patterns with different players.
Never in human history this particular alignment.

Originally posted by @freakykbh
My good man[hidden]or some other phony attempt at sounding friendly and jovial[/hidden], you do realize that science [b]must contain the element of observation, yes?
Not only that, the results need to be repeatable, correct?
And falsifiable, agreed?
Excellent.
My evidence for a non-globe, possibly-and-most-likely flat earth is based upon su ...[text shortened]... other patterns with different players.
Never in human history this particular alignment.[/b]

Sir, I could drop a handful of marbles on to the floor and similarly claim that no such alignment has ever occurred before in human history. (Wouldn't make the occurrence any more meaningful or profound).


(Psst, the marbles referenced might belong to you, as I believe you lost some).

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Sir, I could drop a handful of marbles on to the floor and similarly claim that no such alignment has ever occurred before in human history. (Wouldn't make the occurrence any more meaningful or profound).


(Psst, the marbles referenced might belong to you, as I believe you lost some).

And your argument for a unique alignment is about as loose as your pretend marbles.
This is an alignment which appears to match the description of their positions in the sky from 2,000 years before it happens.
That you fail to grasp the significance doesn't shed light on much more than an insistence to ignore the obvious.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
9 are more visible sure. Does that negate the millions that are less visible to the naked eye?

Freaky's casual statement that the constellation of Leo contains 9 stars is incorrect.

John didn't have a telescope. Just sayin'.

Originally posted by @divegeester
*closes eyes > can't see your post > it doesn't exist*

I thought hell was the only thing that did not exist

Damn it!

Oh..........wait.

Originally posted by @suzianne
John didn't have a telescope. Just sayin'.

Neither did the thousands of other astronomers from antiquity, all or most of which depicted Leo with but nine stars.

Originally posted by @freakykbh
Astrology?
Where do you get such a ridiculous notion?
What part is causing you trouble: understanding that what is described in Revelation 12 is about to happen in the sky; or how we know it's about ready to happen?

I'm struggling with your befuddlling a lion for a dragon. In your world sir, is a caterpillar also a yeti?

Quick recap, in order for your prediction to manifest, millions of stars become 9 and a lion becomes a dragon,..with multiple heads. 🙄

Edit: Spooky.

Originally posted by @freakykbh
Neither did the thousands of other astronomers from antiquity, all or most of which depicted Leo with but nine stars.

That's partially my point. To a casual observer, nine is a good count.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
I'm struggling with your befuddlling a lion for a dragon. In your world sir, is a caterpillar also a yeti?

Quick recap, in order for your prediction to manifest, millions of stars become 9 and a lion becomes a dragon,..with multiple heads. 🙄

Edit: Spooky.

Your struggle is of your own manufacture.
No one claimed the lion was the dragon; the focal point here is the virgin.

It is better to allow the Bible interpret itself. With Revelation you must realize that there is very near nothing in it that is absolutely new. You therefore must see where ELSE something LIKE what you are reading there appears. Comparing the TWO or more biblical usages of such symbols will help in understanding Revelation.

I would say to drop the references to astronomy / astrology (constellations and such). Just drop that stuff.

The vision of the bright woman with the sun, moon, and twelve stars should remind us of Joseph's dream in Genesis 37:9 . There God's elect upon the earth were seen in Joseph, his father and mother, and his eleven brothers. They represented to focus of God's elect people on earth. In them was entrusted the move of God.

The vision also has to remind us of the basic vision of the serpent being at enmity with the woman Eve and her seed to come. The seed will crush the head of the serpent to vanquish the serpent. But in the process the seed will be hurt to have his heel bruised in that crushing.

Genesis 3:15 - God's promise of eventual doom to the serpent and of salvation to Adam and Eve:

"And I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed; He will bruise you on the head, But you will bruise him on the heel." (Gen. 3:15)

You need these considerations in order to get into meaning of the visions of Revelation 12 .

The woman in Revelation 12 has three stricking aspects.

1. The major part of her body is clothed with the sun.
2 The moon is underneath her feet.
3.) Upon her head is a crown of twelve stars.

This woman is a total composition of light. The three sources of light - sun, moon, stars are associated with her. She is a universally bright woman of all light.

She represents the totality of God's saved people upon the earth in three dispensations.
1.) The new testament age of grace.
2.) The old testament age of the law.
3.) The age before the law, of the patriarchs like Abel. Enosh, Enoch, Noah. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph. etc.

Here is the meaning of these three groups.
Most of her body consists of the new testament believers of the age of grace, the age of the church.
Subject to her (ie. under her feet) is the law of Moses. The moon, being a reflector of the sunlight, signals that that Old Testament old covenant of the law of Moses reflects the light of Christ. And the law is subjected to the woman.

Under her feet does not mean disrespect or any negative attitude of the church towards to law. Rather the refection of Christ- the law, is now subjected underneath this woman as she stands mostly in the new testament grace.

The crown of twelve stars are exalted. They are not as the law under her in subjection but are exemplified as heroes of faith. This crown of twelve stars therefore is the exalted heroes of faith in the time before the giving of the law and before the coming of grace in Christ.

She is a symbol meaning the totality of God's saved people on the earth in all ages before the millennial kingdom. Her saints before the law of Moses are a crown of glory upon her head. The age of the law of Moses is subject to her as she is no longer under the law but under grace. The greatest part of her complete body is composed of the saints saved in the new testament salvation of grace.

No one saved by God since the beginning of the world is excluded from this universally bright woman. She is not JUST Israel. She is not JUST the new covenant church. She is the composition of the three ages - before the law, during the law, after the law from the coming of the Savior Christ.

Throughout the ages Satan has always been opposed to this body of human beings. And he stands before her to devour that stronger part of her which is seeking to be brought into existence. That is the saints who overcome, rising up to the level of normal victory in God's salvation.

That's good enough for this post.