1. Standard membersonship
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    22 Jun '14 12:401 edit
    Romans 9:5 is a verse many translators say says that Jesus Christ is God.
    I looked up many translations of this passage for comparison:

    Recovery Version
    Whose are the fathers, and out of whom, as regards what is according to flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

    Do you think ths particular verse says that Christ is God ?
    Do you think it is consistent with other concepts in the book of Romans ?


    New International Version
    Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

    New Living Translation
    Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are their ancestors, and Christ himself was an Israelite as far as his human nature is concerned. And he is God, the one who rules over everything and is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.

    English Standard Version
    To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

    New American Standard Bible
    whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.

    King James Bible
    Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    The ancestors are theirs, and from them, by physical descent, came the Messiah, who is God over all, praised forever. Amen.

    International Standard Version
    To the Israelis belong the patriarchs, and from them, the Messiah descended, who is God over all, the one who is forever blessed. Amen.

    NET Bible
    To them belong the patriarchs, and from them, by human descent, came the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever! Amen.

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    And the Patriarchs; and from them The Messiah appeared in the flesh, who is The God Who is over all, to Whom are praises and blessings to the eternity of eternities, amen.

    GOD'S WORD® Translation
    The Messiah is descended from their ancestors according to his human nature. The Messiah is God over everything, forever blessed. Amen.

    Jubilee Bible 2000
    whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh is the Christ, who is God over all things, blessed for all the ages. Amen.

    King James 2000 Bible
    Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.

    American King James Version
    Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

    American Standard Version
    whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    Whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ, according to the flesh, who is over all things, God blessed for ever. Amen.

    Darby Bible Translation
    whose [are] the fathers; and of whom, as according to flesh, [is] the Christ, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

    English Revised Version
    whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

    Webster's Bible Translation
    Whose are the fathers, and from whom according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

    Weymouth New Testament
    To them the Patriarchs belong, and from them in respect of His human lineage came the Christ, who is exalted above all, God blessed throughout the Ages. Amen.

    World English Bible
    of whom are the fathers, and from whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God, blessed forever. Amen.

    Young's Literal Translation
    whose are the fathers, and of whom is the Christ, according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed to the ages. Amen.
  2. Joined
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    22 Jun '14 13:41
    Originally posted by sonship
    Romans 9:5 is a verse many translators say says that Jesus Christ is God.
    I looked up many translations of this passage for comparison:

    [b]Recovery Version

    Whose are the fathers, and out of whom, as regards what is according to flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

    Do you think ths particular verse says ...[text shortened]... is the Christ, according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed to the ages. Amen. [/quote][/b]
    Settles it for me! 🙂

    But I'm not a JW either! Or an atheist. Or of any other persuasion that denies the truth of God's Word.

    God's Word. Without which we wouldn't have a clue about anything about God except for what is in nature which is confirmed by God's Word. Simple!
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    22 Jun '14 14:194 edits
    Originally posted by josephw
    Settles it for me! 🙂

    But I'm not a JW either! Or an atheist. Or of any other persuasion that denies the truth of God's Word.

    God's Word. Without which we wouldn't have a clue about anything about God except for what is in nature which is confirmed by God's Word. Simple!
    Have you looked at the original language? no, can you tell what the verse says in the original language, no! have you anyway therefore of knowing if these translations are accurate, no! and in fact you are completely ignorant until you do. Get yourself educated and then you will be in a position to tell what is actually in Gods word and who denies it on what basis, otherwise its a battle against ignorance, yours that is.

    Your assertions of being knowledgeable are mock worthy, you haven't the slightest idea if what you are reading is accurate. That is probably why neither you nor the original contributor has made the slightest reference to the original text because you are simply content to believe your own propaganda.
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    22 Jun '14 15:24
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Have you looked at the original language? no, can you tell what the verse says in the original language, no! have you anyway therefore of knowing if these translations are accurate, no! and in fact you are completely ignorant until you do. Get yourself educated and then you will be in a position to tell what is actually in Gods word and who denies i ...[text shortened]... st reference to the original text because you are simply content to believe your own propaganda.
    Romans 9:5

    Funny don't you think robbie that virtually everyone but you and the Watchtower translate the above verse to mean the same thing? Yet you feel the need to attack me instead of proving that your translation is actually correct!

    Thankyou. I think I feel a conversion coming on! 😕
  5. Standard memberRJHinds
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    22 Jun '14 15:341 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Have you looked at the original language? no, can you tell what the verse says in the original language, no! have you anyway therefore of knowing if these translations are accurate, no! and in fact you are completely ignorant until you do. Get yourself educated and then you will be in a position to tell what is actually in Gods word and who denies i ...[text shortened]... st reference to the original text because you are simply content to believe your own propaganda.
    You probably have never heard of Archibald Thomas Robertson who wrote "Word Pictures in the New Testament", but he did know the Greek. He wrote the following concerning "Who is over all, God blessed for ever (ho on epi panton theos eulogetos):

    A clear statement of the deity of Christ following the remark about his humanity.

    Then he points to Titus 2:13 for Paul's use of Theos applied to Jesus Christ.

    looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

    (Titus 2:13 NASB)
  6. Standard memberRJHinds
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    22 Jun '14 15:58
    In reference to Romans 9:5, A.T. Robertson also points to Acts 20:28.

    "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

    (Acts 20:28 NASB)
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    22 Jun '14 17:03
    Originally posted by josephw
    Romans 9:5

    Funny don't you think robbie that virtually everyone but you and the Watchtower translate the above verse to mean the same thing? Yet you feel the need to attack me instead of proving that your translation is actually correct!

    Thankyou. I think I feel a conversion coming on! 😕
    I have not provided an alternative translation, it would be pointless, you cannot even evaluate the ones that have been presented so far.
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    22 Jun '14 17:32
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I have not provided an alternative translation, it would be pointless, you cannot even evaluate the ones that have been presented so far.
    Read them and weep robbie. Or come up with something that demonstrates your literary acumen.
  9. Standard memberCalJust
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    22 Jun '14 17:452 edits
    Isn't it ironic that two different groups of Christians attack each other on doctrinal interpretation, whilst at the same time exhibiting the exact behaviour that Jesus (whom both groups accept, if not in the same capacity and role) preached against and made it his New Law: that you love one another!

    And with a ringside seat the atheists quite justifiably laugh and mock this behaviour!
  10. Joined
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    22 Jun '14 18:24
    Originally posted by CalJust
    Isn't it ironic that two different groups of Christians attack each other on doctrinal interpretation, whilst at the same time exhibiting the exact behaviour that Jesus (whom both groups accept, if not in the same capacity and role) preached against and made it his New Law: [b]that you love one another!

    And with a ringside seat the atheists quite justifiably laugh and mock this behaviour![/b]
    And exhibit the same behavior.

    Excuse me, but I am doing just that; doing unto others as I would have done unto me. Just because we disagree and say sarcastic things doesn't mean you need to come along and make your opinions about 'loving one another', and what that should look like, known as though you have arrived at perfection.

    We're not God, we're only human and subject to vanity. All of us! Don't expect me to feel guilty just because I was being sarcastic. If you want perfection then look to Jesus. No one can find fault with Him.
  11. Standard membervivify
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    22 Jun '14 18:38
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Have you looked at the original language? no, can you tell what the verse says in the original language, no! have you anyway therefore of knowing if these translations are accurate, no! and in fact you are completely ignorant until you do. Get yourself educated and then you will be in a position to tell what is actually in Gods word and who denies i ...[text shortened]... st reference to the original text because you are simply content to believe your own propaganda.
    By this logic, how do you even know that there is a god? Since you can't read the original language, you can't say that the bible claims a god exists.
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    22 Jun '14 18:531 edit
    Originally posted by vivify
    By this logic, how do you even know that there is a god? Since you can't read the original language, you can't say that the bible claims a god exists.
    But I can read Greek and evidence for God while primarily dependent upon scripture is also found by observing that natural world, infact the Bible encourages the student to examine the natural world or have you never read Romans 1:20? the assertion therefore that I cannot understand the Bibles claim that a God existence is seriously flawed.
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    22 Jun '14 18:55
    Originally posted by vivify
    By this logic, how do you even know that there is a god? Since you can't read the original language, you can't say that the bible claims a god exists.
    You'll have to come to terms with the fact that a JW doesn't have to even be able to read. All they have to do is look at the pretty little pictures in the Awake magazine and listen to what the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society tells them to believe.

    By the way, there is not a single bonafide Greek or Hebrew scholar amongst them, and the manuscripts they use are corrupt. Westcott and Hort would be proud to know their translation of those corrupt manuscripts was used to publish the New World Translation.
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    22 Jun '14 19:021 edit
    Originally posted by josephw
    You'll have to come to terms with the fact that a JW doesn't have to even be able to read. All they have to do is look at the pretty little pictures in the Awake magazine and listen to what the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society tells them to believe.

    By the way, there is not a single bonafide Greek or Hebrew scholar amongst them, and the manuscripts they ...[text shortened]... ow their translation of those corrupt manuscripts was used to publish the New World Translation.
    and yet i can read Greek and you cannot and you are therefore unaware of what scripture actually says and you will never be in a position to actually read what scripture actually says and will be forced to take it upon trust as you have demonstrated in this thread, infact all you can actually hope for is to make a lexical comparison of translations without actually having the tools to discern which is accurate and which is not and yet here you are pontificating about what other know and do not know, you are the ignorant one here, go away and educate yourself and stop projecting your ignorance onto others, its fraudulent and hypocritical and about as far removed from Jesus as you can get.
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    22 Jun '14 19:42
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    and yet i can read Greek and you cannot and you are therefore unaware of what scripture actually says and you will never be in a position to actually read what scripture actually says and will be forced to take it upon trust as you have demonstrated in this thread, infact all you can actually hope for is to make a lexical comparison of translations ...[text shortened]... nto others, its fraudulent and hypocritical and about as far removed from Jesus as you can get.
    I knew I'd get your attention with that.

    Ya, sure, you can read Greek.

    Be that as it may you can still not get it right. One, in this day and age, need not be able to read Greek. All one needs to do is know how to think and learn from those who do. Besides, with the technology available one can certainly discover what the truth is by merely comparing all the available information, and commentaries by the thousands by those with credentials impeccable.

    Why, your English grammar is suspect all by itself robbie, much less your self proclaimed knowledge of Greek, which you fail to prove.

    Bring on the Greek from which the verse in question is derived so that I and the others who believe it means that Jesus is God can recover from our error.
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