1. Joined
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    17 May '06 06:56
    How do you get something from nothing?




    --If you say God created it, then

    What made God?

    --If you say God has always existed, then

    This concept would hold as true as the universe as saying the universe has always existed. If you can accept the eternal existance of God, then why do you totally discount the idea of the universe always existing.

    But, yet we are here. so something had to happen.


    --Miracles I believe have happened:

    The beginning of existance. I am not saying that there was anything in the universe at this time, I am just saying the universe began-- an example would be: universe = null, where the universe doesn't exist at all, becoming universe = 0, where the universe exists, it just has no value. Explaining how this miracle could of happened is way beyond anything I can think of.


    Energy enters the universe. The idiots version of the theory is(this would be my version--im an idiot) For every bit of matter that has come into existance, there is an antimatter. When these 2 matters come together, they destroy each other and become 100% energy. This leads me to believe that energy had to come before matter(energy converts to matter + antimatter converts to energy). Therefore--where did the energy come from(and in such MASSIVE supply to make the universe as it is today). One thing to note, with matter and antimatter, this would make a universal equation of 1=1, giving some substance to the universe.


    Life enters the universe. This doesn't seem so miraculous in science, but it really is. There are a few very awesome things about life--living forms are able to make decisions. Living forms are able to reproduce. Living forms are able to react. There are many others, but as I said, I am stupid, and can't think of em right now.


    Post your thoughts, add something, flame me, I don't care. Thoughts like this have been swimming in my head for a few years now, I think I am obligated to share them to get some closure.
  2. Joined
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    17 May '06 07:351 edit
    Here is something totally different I have decided to post, just because it was in my mind at the moment.


    I don't like killing things. I used to not care when I was growing up in middle school etc, but now that I am getting into college, and starting to actually think about the world around me, I realized:

    (insert living thing here) has a life, and is able to percieve the universe--and it is very possible that this will be its only life

    (there is not an infinite(or maybe it is?), but very large chain reaction starting from the moment the universe began until this creature was born, in which case everything that did happen probably had to happen as it did, meaning this creatures ability to live was basically a miracle in itself)--although I guess there is a possibility it could be born again... i mean, it has already been born once, that I can be sure of.

    So, what gives me the right to destroy its life--to squash it out of existance. Although, the sad truth is everything living eventually dies anyway(which brings up a question--whats the point of even living at all if we are not able to hold onto what we did when we were alive(this is a hypothesis--I am very much alive atm, so I have no idea what is like to be dead. I would ask a dead person what its like to be dead, but I hear they don't like to tell their secrets.) There is one thing I believe--that the matter that makes up my body has existed in some form or another since energy came into existance in the universe. It has just, under a very large series of events, come together into the form it is now. Maybe, when I die, all the energy of my body just spreads out into other things, but will continue to exist in the universe, even though I may not always have a conscious.


    I know this is all garbled and hard to understand, but I am just writing down what comes to my mind-- in short, what I am saying is:

    I used to not care about others

    then I started to care

    then I would feel bad about even squashing a cockroach or killing a fly

    and now, its gotten so bad(or good maybe?) that I just don't kill anything unless I absolutely have to--and then I get very depressed about it afterwards.

    Whats going to be next? Maybe vegetarian? Suicide?(i dont have to kill others to live if i am dead)...

    Am I going crazy, or do other people have thoughts like this too. This is one reason I think religion is a good thing. With the belief of some form of conscious after life, then you don't think death is the ultimate end, and that there is a meaning to life--and therefore you don't feel so damn depressed about it. The only way I can stop myself from getting depressed about this kind of stuff is to force myself not to think about it. This would be one of those nights where its just on my mind.

    Post thoughts, comments, add ons, flame, whatever, I don't care.
  3. Standard membershavixmir
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    17 May '06 07:49
    Originally posted by danielsmith
    How do you get something from nothing?




    --If you say God created it, then

    What made God?

    --If you say God has always existed, then

    This concept would hold as true as the universe as saying the universe has always existed. If you can accept the eternal existance of God, then why do you totally discount the idea of the universe always ex ...[text shortened]... ng in my head for a few years now, I think I am obligated to share them to get some closure.
    The problem is in your thesis.

    There never was nothing. There has always been something and there will always be something.
  4. Joined
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    17 May '06 08:05
    here is something else I just thought of... this is short. What if all existance could be be summarized as either a line(eternal both ways), a ray(has a beginning, but no end), or a line segment. How would you rate. What would status would you give each of my three miracles above?

    This is what I give:


    UNIVERSE

    This contradicts what I said earlier--because earlier I said the universe came into existance. The universe as a line would indicate that it has always existed. I simply don't know the answer, so this is what I will guess.



    ENERGY
    ------------------------------------->

    I think that energy had a starting point, but now that it is here, it will always exist.


    I am going to add matter as a line segment on the energy ray.

    -------.-------------.--------------->


    Life(actually being conscious of the world around you)

    .----------------------.


    Adding another one:

    TIME



    I think time has existed with the universe, but is not the same. With time, Every point represents a moment. Therefore, I represent time as being as each point being part of an infinite number of points that form a line.


    Tell me what you guys think.
  5. Joined
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    17 May '06 08:20
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    The problem is in your thesis.

    There never was nothing. There has always been something and there will always be something.
    And how do you explain this shaviximir? If there has always been something in the universe, where did it originate from? If it didn't originate from anything, then how can it exist? I am not saying what you say is wrong, but I am saying that you have no business saying that I am wrong with just a statement. Then again, I don't expect you to be able to provide adequate proof, or be able to answer these questions--(and if you think you can, then I think maybe you haven't come to the terms with the fact that humans know only a minuscule of what there is to know).


    I think an appropriate response would be-- I BELIEVE there has always been something and there will always be something. Stating it as a matter of fact is well, just rude.
  6. Standard memberXanthosNZ
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    17 May '06 08:23
    High School right?
  7. Joined
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    17 May '06 08:37
    No, college. And what does that have to do with anything I said? If you can't post about the topic on hand, then don't post in my thread.
  8. Belfast
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    17 May '06 08:47
    It is up to you to determine your own purpose, not anyone else.
  9. Standard memberXanthosNZ
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    17 May '06 08:58
    Originally posted by danielsmith
    No, college. And what does that have to do with anything I said? If you can't post about the topic on hand, then don't post in my thread.
    Are you taking an introductory Philosophy course? If not, do you plan to?
  10. Joined
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    17 May '06 09:16
    I haven't, and don't plan too(my study is computer security)--but I see what your asking me now. Why not just tell me to read about space-time continuum instead of beating around the bush and trying to make me look like an idiot. If you read my post, I already stated I am an idiot.😀
  11. Standard memberXanthosNZ
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    17 May '06 09:18
    Originally posted by danielsmith
    I am an idiot.
    Summing up the entire thread.
  12. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
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    17 May '06 23:52
    Originally posted by danielsmith
    here is something else I just thought of... this is short. What if all existance could be be summarized as either a line(eternal both ways), a ray(has a beginning, but no end), or a line segment. How would you rate. What would status would you give each of my three miracles above?

    This is what I give:


    UNIVERSE

    This contradicts what I said e ...[text shortened]... being part of an infinite number of points that form a line.


    Tell me what you guys think.
    I haven't got time to repeat myself so have a look at the "eternity- a clarification" thread I started, there's a lot of this stuff in there.
  13. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
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    17 May '06 23:55
    Originally posted by danielsmith
    How do you get something from nothing?




    --If you say God created it, then

    What made God?

    --If you say God has always existed, then

    This concept would hold as true as the universe as saying the universe has always existed. If you can accept the eternal existance of God, then why do you totally discount the idea of the universe always ex ...[text shortened]... ng in my head for a few years now, I think I am obligated to share them to get some closure.
    Once you establish in your mind that something from nothing is irrational then you are left with eternal universe or eternal something else....eternal meaning without beginning or end.
  14. Cape Town
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    18 May '06 07:56
    Originally posted by danielsmith
    How do you get something from nothing?
    And how exaclty were you able to proove that this question is imposible to answer?

    In my understanding of physics, either something is coming out of nothing everywhere all the time, or there is really no such thing as nothing. One of the results of quantum physics.

    As for your thoughts about the begining of the universe you are assuming eroneously that time is not just a property of the universe and that there existed a place where there was a time -t where there was time, some large expanses of nothing, but no universe. This is a baseless assumption.
  15. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    18 May '06 08:33
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Once you establish in your mind that something from nothing is irrational then you are left with eternal universe or eternal something else....eternal meaning without beginning or end.
    Once you get it into your head that the concept of rationality is itself irrational in terms of the beginning of the universe you realise that current logic doesn't have the capacity to ask sensible questions on this topic.
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