Snakes/Apples

Originally posted by sonship
I don't recall opting out of such a discussion.

Once, when you were claiming that the most demented and nonsensical scheme of revenge ever dredged up from the human imagination was in fact "perfect justice" and evidence of "God's glory" and I suggested that merely making these assertions did not make them so, you counter-suggested that I was evidence of how low the human race had fallen and you pulled the ripcord. You are of course entitled to your opinion and to exit-by-ad-hominem whenever you want, but you surely don't think these kind of things propagate your extraordinary claims successfully ~ unless your aim here is only to preach to the choir and not genuinely engage people with different beliefs from you.

Originally posted by FMF

If you disagree that the management of knowledge creates power for some and disadvantage or even danger for others then you can simply say so.
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I agree in some instances and in some instances I don't.

When I told a toddler to stay away from the stove because they could accidentally be burnt, i wasn't trying to exercise tyrannical power over them.

The warning of Genesis 3 reads to me as a warning out of love.

The serpent questioning saying "Yea, hath God said ... " suggesting that God was withholding some good fortune FROM man was the enemy of God and of man's ploy to put humans at a disadvantage.

But evidence is not persuasion. No doubt, you would regard it differently.


I believe it is an uncontroversial observation about the history of power and the human condition.
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It is somewhat of a self defeating philosophy. You are managing a certain kind of knowledge and so could be accused of seeking power over those to whom you wish to distribute your knowledge.

Why isn't your management of your knowledge here a continuation of "the history of power" ?


It's not as if I am claiming that humans who train themselves to think certain things can thus become immortal and that they have heard instructions to that end from "God".
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I can't say "He took the words right out of my mouth" here, about your little critique of New Testament salvation.

I think you simply want to wield as a weapon some assumed knowledge about history and Judeo / Christian influenced civilization to gain some power and render some disadvantage to a few other people you disagree with.

Originally posted by sonship
FMF: If you disagree that the management of knowledge creates power for some and disadvantage or even danger for others then you can simply say so.

I agree in some instances and in some instances I don't. When I told a toddler to stay away from the stove because they could accidentally be burnt, i wasn't trying to exercise tyrannical power over them.

The OP is about human society and political power, and not about a toddler getting knowledge about getting accidentally burnt on a stove.

Originally posted by sonship
It is somewhat of a self defeating philosophy. You are managing a certain kind of knowledge and so could be accused of seeking power over those to whom you wish to distribute your knowledge. Why isn't your management of your knowledge here a continuation of "the history of power" ? [text shortened] I think you simply want to wield as a weapon some assumed ...[text shortened]... zation to gain some power and render some disadvantage to a few other people you disagree with..

This just seems pouty and clumsy to me. You see my OP as being an attempt at "seeking power" over you?

Originally posted by sonship
FMF: It's not as if I am claiming that humans who train themselves to think certain things can thus become immortal and that they have heard instructions to that end from "God".

I can't say "He took the words right out of my mouth" here, about your little critique of New Testament salvation.

But it is, nevertheless, how your take on supposed New Testament salvation comes across to me. I did not claim that the words I used were taken out of your mouth. Would you rather people here did not tell you when they are unconvinced or when they disagree with stuff you claim?

Originally posted by FMF
This just seems pouty and clumsy to me. You see my OP as being an attempt at "seeking power" over you?

I am pointing out the often repeated tendency for skeptics to exempt themselves from the analysis they apply to others. They suspend critiques concerning human behavior (for themselves) long enough to believe it applies to others only.

Its understandable that pointing this out would be regarded as someone "pouting". If the hypocrisy were not so obvious maybe there would be no need to pout.

So you someone wants to claim management of knowledge is to gain power over others. But he wants to suspend that critique with his own managing and dispensing of knowledge to seek some advantage of his own.

There's nothing clumsy about noticing the desire to suspend the rule when it applies to one's self.

It is not thinking certain things which enables man to attain immortality. Being joined to the immortal God in life, in union is what brings about God's impartation of eternal life to man.

We were never meant not to be united with God.

Originally posted by sonship
I am pointing out the often repeated tendency for skeptics to exempt themselves from the analysis they apply to others. They suspend critiques concerning human behavior (for themselves) long enough to believe it applies to others only.

Its understandable that pointing this out would be regarded as someone "pouting". If the hypocrisy were not so obvio ...[text shortened]... ut God's impartation of eternal life to man.

We were never meant not to be united with God.

Your suggestion that I am "seeking power" over you is silly. This is a discussion and debate forum. I think you are just pouting.

Originally posted by sonship
So you someone wants to claim management of knowledge is to gain power over others. But he wants to suspend that critique with his own managing and dispensing of knowledge to seek some advantage of his own.

I did not create supernatural stories that caution people not to go against the authority of a supernatural being and I am not in any way part of a faction here on earth that authored such nonsense and exercised earthly power over others in part due to the threats of ghastly retribution that lasts forever. So your claim that I am "seeking power" over you is just silly.

Originally posted by sonship
It is not thinking certain things which enables man to attain immortality. Being [b] joined to the immortal God in life, in union is what brings about God's impartation of eternal life to man.[/b]

Of course it is "thinking certain things which enables man to attain immortality" according to your ideology and superstition. You think - claim - tell yourself - that "being joined to the immortal God in life, in union is what brings about God's impartation of eternal life to man." You believe that if you think this, then you will attain mortality.