1. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
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    23 Feb '07 18:331 edit
    I have a thought experiment....


    Imagine I have created a nothing-o-tron. It is capabale of sucking up anything in existence into it's great wobbly belly. I start her up and she starts sucking (oooer!) and whole galaxies are pulled into her mouth . The earth was destroyed in seconds, the sun in a minute. The nothing-o-tron has one special power....it can turn existence into non-existence......complete annihilation (not transformation) . Everything that enters the nothing-o-tron is zapped and is destroyed without a trace so completely that it would be as if it had never existed in the first place.

    The machine continues it's terrible task . Soon the universe and space/time are being sucked in. The nothing-o-tron does not stop , it has absolute and perfect ability to detect any form of existence at all ...if something exists...it's doomed. Time , spirits , God , alien worlds , parallel universes , 10 , 20 ,2000 dimensions , quantum fields and vacuums , dark matter , ...it makes no difference ....nothing in existence can escape it's grasp. This machine has been designed to detect even forms of existence that are unimaginable either within or beyond the known universe. The only criteria is ...if it exists....it sucks it up.

    Now the nothing-o-tron has nearly done it's apocalyptic mission. An Empty void is all that remains , but this machine is too clever for that it instantly recognises the empty void as something that exists and starts sucking on that too. Now all that is left is nothing existing. However , in it's penultimate act the nothing-o-tron sees the nothingness as existing and so sucks up this paradox and makes it non-exist. Now there is only the nothing-o-tron itself it has nearly completed it's work and in one final act it self destructs . But it's not an explosion , it converts itself into non-existence. The nothing-o-tron is no more . It ceases to exist along with ALL existence.

    QUESTION

    What would be the most likely scenario now?

    A. That this machine has delivered absolute death on all existence and that it's impossible for anything to ever exist again.

    B. That there is a reasonable chance that existence will somehow find a way to re-exist from absolute non-existence?
  2. Standard memberAcemaster
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    23 Feb '07 19:36
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    I have a thought experiment....


    Imagine I have created a nothing-o-tron. It is capabale of sucking up anything in existence into it's great wobbly belly. I start her up and she starts sucking (oooer!) and whole galaxies are pulled into her mouth . The earth was destroyed in seconds, the sun in a minute. The nothing-o-tron has one special power... ...[text shortened]... chance that existence will somehow find a way to re-exist from absolute non-existence?
    C. None of that would happen because it sucked itself into its on mouth!
  3. Standard memberknightmeister
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    23 Feb '07 19:56
    Originally posted by Acemaster
    C. None of that would happen because it sucked itself into its on mouth!
    I did not say that was how it non-existed. It could be an automated device that that just makes it non-exist from within.
  4. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    23 Feb '07 20:12
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    but this machine is too clever for that it instantly recognises the empty void as something that exists and starts sucking on that too.
    If it has sucked up space-time, then that "void" you describe doesn't exist.
  5. Standard memberknightmeister
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    23 Feb '07 20:361 edit
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    If it has sucked up space-time, then that "void" you describe doesn't exist.
    Good , then the existence of the void is nullified , it doesn't exist. It matters not my friend , I haven't placed the events in a particularly scientific order. The only thing that matters is that non-existence rules in the end and that absolutely nothing is left existing.

    I've included God in there for those who believe in him and time for those who believe in time , so the experiment can be interpreted differently by individuals. How you get there is unimportant. But the end of existence itself is.

    Now could you answer the question now if that's too much too ask?
  6. Standard memberknightmeister
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    24 Feb '07 16:59
    Originally posted by Acemaster
    C. None of that would happen because it sucked itself into its on mouth!
    OOOER!
  7. Standard memberAcemaster
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    24 Feb '07 19:57
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    I did not say that was how it non-existed. It could be an automated device that that just makes it non-exist from within.
    Once you flipped the switch and it started sucking everything up, wouldn't it start with the closest thing to it? What's closer than itself?
  8. Standard memberknightmeister
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    24 Feb '07 23:15
    Originally posted by Acemaster
    Once you flipped the switch and it started sucking everything up, wouldn't it start with the closest thing to it? What's closer than itself?
    I designed it with a special chip that gave it a long term goal of annihilating existence itself , so no it wouldn't. How about answering the question at hand?
  9. Standard memberknightmeister
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    25 Feb '07 10:06
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    If it has sucked up space-time, then that "void" you describe doesn't exist.
    I think it has sucked up any posters' comments as well. No-one seems to be able to have a stab at saying whether B is rational or even faintly likely. What odds would you put on B , 100-1 , 1,000-1 , 1000000000-1 ??
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    25 Feb '07 11:15
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    I have a thought experiment....


    Imagine I have created a nothing-o-tron. It is capabale of sucking up anything in existence into it's great wobbly belly. I start her up and she starts sucking (oooer!) and whole galaxies are pulled into her mouth . The earth was destroyed in seconds, the sun in a minute. The nothing-o-tron has one special power... ...[text shortened]... chance that existence will somehow find a way to re-exist from absolute non-existence?
    knight, we've spoken about this before, you cannot have nothing, its not possible - even if what you say happened then you would still have darkness, and darkness is matter... therefore you still have something
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    25 Feb '07 11:19
    the story you described... isnt that the big bang theory..?
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    25 Feb '07 11:23
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    I think it has sucked up any posters' comments as well. No-one seems to be able to have a stab at saying whether B is rational or even faintly likely. What odds would you put on B , 100-1 , 1,000-1 , 1000000000-1 ??
    its very possible what you describe will happen, scientists believe that where the universe is currently expanding and increasing in speed at the same time, there will get to a point where the opposite will happen and it will start to decrease, eventually consuming all within its path. i'm sure then it will get to a stage the universe as we know it will be the size of an atom with increible density... from there... the density will be so great that it will explode... and so the big bang starts again... some people call this, from a religious view, the very breathing of god
  13. Standard memberknightmeister
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    25 Feb '07 17:45
    Originally posted by eatmybishop
    knight, we've spoken about this before, you cannot have nothing, its not possible - even if what you say happened then you would still have darkness, and darkness is matter... therefore you still have something
    have we spoken about this? Ok , fair enough , maybe the non-existence of existence is impossible... so does that mean for you that existence is permanent? . It can't be got rid of and neither can it not be there at any point .

    However , in my story the nothing-o-tron can detect matter and darkness so it would suck that up too . It would be a colourless and matterless darkness. I would also posit that darkness doesn't need matter all it needs is an absence of light. So in the middle of nothingness one would see....erhem.....nothing and our eyes would interpret the absence of light as "darkness" . But it could also be like being blind , absolute absence of visual input => darkness.

    Of course if we were there to see it it wouldn't be nothing anyway

    What's interesting so far is how no-one seems to want to have a stab at the question. Why is this?
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    25 Feb '07 18:14
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    I have a thought experiment....


    Imagine I have created a nothing-o-tron. It is capabale of sucking up anything in existence into it's great wobbly belly. I start her up and she starts sucking (oooer!) and whole galaxies are pulled into her mouth . The earth was destroyed in seconds, the sun in a minute. The nothing-o-tron has one special power... ...[text shortened]... chance that existence will somehow find a way to re-exist from absolute non-existence?
    well if you insist, i would have to answer b... something cannot come from nothing... this does open up the question where did it all start though
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    25 Feb '07 22:091 edit
    I would answer A.

    But, whats the point of the question? You can neither destroy nor create matter. So, the events your decription would never even be possible.

    What do you hope to gain from such a ridiculous, rhetorical question?
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