1. Shetland Primary
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    02 Apr '05 19:11
    I think Christians themselves are the greatest threat of Christianity. There are many 'nominal' Christians that don't really have a clue what Christianity is all about. They call themselves Christians yet they bring more harm to Christianity than anything else. I think that it is no wonder that there are so many atheists and non-believers that don't want anything to do with Christianity. I think that is totally the fault of Christians themselves. There are so many Christians that don't even believe the Bilbe. The way they live is in no way differernt to that of a raw heathen. They smoke and drink and curse yet they call themselves Chritians. Personally I don't think that it is neccessary for a true believer to even preach one word to a non-believer. (Of course I am not refering to these forums but rather to Christians that interact with non-Chritians in daily life) I think that a Christian that has a true living relationship with Christ is in himself a letter written not by ink but by the spirit of the living God. Just the life of a Chritian should in itself be a sermon to the non-believer. A true Christian should portray that Christ has risen and it only a true Christian that should be able to sing the song: "Because he lives, I can face tomorrow..."

    I think there are many Christians that fall short.

    NB: Please note that this applies to myself just as much as it applies to any other Christian. I think that there are many of us that fall short and I believe we should all strive harder to reach the perfection that is required of us.
  2. Standard memberWulebgr
    Angler
    River City
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    02 Apr '05 19:27
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    I think Christians themselves are the greatest threat of Christianity. There are many 'nominal' Christians that don't really have a clue what Christianity is all about. They call themselves Christians yet they bring more harm to Christianity than anything else. I think that it is no wonder that there are so many atheists and non-believers that don't wa ...[text shortened]... short and I believe we should all strive harder to reach the perfection that is required of us.
    and all the people said, Amen
  3. Standard memberColetti
    W.P. Extraordinaire
    State of Franklin
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    02 Apr '05 20:251 edit
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    I think Christians themselves are the greatest threat of Christianity. There are many 'nominal' Christians that don't really have a clue what Christianity is all about. They call themselves Christians yet they bring more harm to Christ ...[text shortened]... all strive harder to reach the perfection that is required of us.
    Do you think clean living and living a good life is what makes a Christian? Don't smoke and drink, and go to church on Sundays? If you think that’s what is needed, you are sadly mistaken.

    You are right, the greatest threat to Christianity are those who think being a Christian is all about being good. Or that think that the way they live their lives conveys any saving knowledge to others.

    You do not even want to talk about the thing which is essential for a person to be a Christian. You would deny others the only thing that can help them. For what?? To keep the peace? Your Reputation? Fear of embarrassment?
  4. Standard memberDarfius
    The Apologist
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    02 Apr '05 20:28
    Originally posted by Coletti
    Do you think clean living and living a good life is what makes a Christian? Don't smoke and drink, and go to church on Sundays? If you think that’s what is needed, you are sadly mistaken.

    You are right, the greatest threat to Christianity are those who think being a Christian is all about being good. Or that think that the way they live their lives ...[text shortened]... hat can help them. For what?? To keep the peace? Your Reputation? Fear of embarrassment?
    Coletti, becker is a born-again. He shares the message of Christ often.

    I believe his point was that there are many "Christians" who only make claims to being one, but do not convey that they are followers of Christ, which is true.

    Though I'll be the first to agree with you. Good works don't save us. God's grace through Jesus Christ our Lord does.
  5. Standard memberColetti
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    02 Apr '05 20:39
    Originally posted by Darfius
    Coletti, becker is a born-again. He shares the message of Christ often.

    I believe his point was that there are many "Christians" who only make claims to being one, but do not convey that they are followers of Christ, which is true.

    Though I'll be the first to agree with you. Good works don't save us. God's grace through Jesus Christ our Lord does.
    Amen.

    What really disturbed me was the statement:

    “Personally I don't think that it is neccessary for a true believer to even preach one word to a non-believer.”

    How can someone believe what they have never heard?
  6. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
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    02 Apr '05 20:46
    Originally posted by Coletti
    Amen.

    What really disturbed me was the statement:

    “Personally I don't think that it is neccessary for a true believer to even preach one word to a non-believer.”

    How can someone believe what they have never heard?
    I thought the bit about the "raw heathen" might raise a few eyebrows.
  7. Standard memberColetti
    W.P. Extraordinaire
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    02 Apr '05 20:54
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I thought the bit about the "raw heathen" might raise a few eyebrows.
    Yeah. I did find it rather creative. I suppose it means base, or worldly. I picture a biker with an obscene message on his shirt and a naked lady tattooed to his bicep. Or your typical college student. 😉
  8. Standard memberNemesio
    Ursulakantor
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    02 Apr '05 21:01
    Originally posted by Coletti
    What really disturbed me was the statement:

    “Personally I don't think that it is neccessary for a true believer to even preach one word to a non-believer.”

    How can someone believe what they have never heard?
    By observing the Christ-like nature of the believer and, being inspired,
    striving to imitate by example.

    There is no such thing as a Christian who does not live the Gospel in
    thoughts, words and deeds. And, I daresay, a Christian who reaches out
    to all people in love (theist and atheist alike) will be a far more compelling
    advocate for Jesus than one who makes claims that God will banish them
    to hell if they don't convert.

    Nemesio
  9. Joined
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    02 Apr '05 21:03
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    I think Christians themselves are the greatest threat of Christianity. There are many 'nominal' Christians that don't really have a clue what Christianity is all about. They call themselves Christians yet they bring more harm to Christianity than anything else. I think that it is no wonder that there are so many atheists and non-believers that don't wa ...[text shortened]... short and I believe we should all strive harder to reach the perfection that is required of us.
    I agree with your post, one of my best friends Isnt a Christian becase his dad would beat him and his mom, And he would say that God told him to do it. I am far from the perfect Christian, and I find myself a hypocrite somtimes, I value true friends who tells me what my faults are
  10. Standard memberColetti
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    02 Apr '05 21:131 edit
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    By observing the Christ-like nature of the believer and, being inspired,
    striving to imitate by example. ...
    Nemesio
    And what knowledge is conveyed by observing if you do not know what Christ said, much less who Christ is?

    But I agree with much of the rest you wrote.

    "There is no such thing as a Christian who does not live the Gospel in
    thoughts, words and deeds. And, I daresay, a Christian who reaches out
    to all people in love (theist and atheist alike) will be a far more compelling
    advocate for Jesus than one who makes claims that God will banish them
    to hell if they don't convert."
  11. Standard memberNemesio
    Ursulakantor
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    02 Apr '05 21:23
    Originally posted by Coletti
    And what knowledge is conveyed by observing if you do not know what Christ said, much less who Christ is?
    I call your attention to one of my favorite parables in St Matthew 21:28-31a:

    What is your opinion? A man had two sons. He came to the first and said.
    'Son, go out and work in the vineyard today.' He said in reply, 'I will not,'
    but afterwards he changed his mind and went. The man came to the other
    son and gave the same order. He said in reply, 'Yes, sir,' but did not go.
    Which of the two did his father's will?'


    Living a Christ-like life will lead to conversion. Talking about living a Christ-
    like life will lead to a bunch of so-called hypocrite Christians patting each other
    on their jimmies.

    Nemesio

  12. Shetland Primary
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    04 Apr '05 07:12
    Originally posted by Coletti
    Do you think clean living and living a good life is what makes a Christian? Don't smoke and drink, and go to church on Sundays? If you think that’s what is needed, you are sadly mistaken.

    You are right, the greatest threat to Christianity are those who think being a Christian is all about being good. Or that think that the way they live their lives ...[text shortened]... hat can help them. For what?? To keep the peace? Your Reputation? Fear of embarrassment?
    Do you think clean living and living a good life is what makes a Christian? Don't smoke and drink, and go to church on Sundays? If you think that’s what is needed, you are sadly mistaken.

    Not at all. I think you might have misunderstood me. What I was trying to say is that there are many Christians that call themselves Christians but if you look at their lives before and after the time of their "conversion" you can see no difference. They still continue to smoke, drink and curse. What I was trying to say was that there must be a radical change which should be seen by everybody that was in contact with you before and after your conversion.

    You do not even want to talk about the thing which is essential for a person to be a Christian. You would deny others the only thing that can help them. For what?? To keep the peace? Your Reputation? Fear of embarrassment?


    Sorry, I think I did not make myself clear enough. What I was actually trying to say was that it is actually not neccessary to "preach with your mouth" at everybody you meet at all times, because you might put some poeple off. Let's face it, there are many "Christians" that go around preaching at every Tom, Dick and Harry they meet yet if you look at their lives they are actually not living what they are preaching. They may be saying "do what I say but don't do what I do". Of course it is essential to share the gospel at all times with any non-believer, but what I was trying to point out is that the most powerful way in which you can share the gospel is with your own life. Of course I am not saying that clean living and living a good life is what makes a Christian. God says "be holy as I am holy". That is a very high calling. It is a separation from the world and worldliness. So what I am saying is that the Christian is called to "holiness" and this means a clear separation or difference should be seen between the believer and the non-believer.
  13. Shetland Primary
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    04 Apr '05 07:261 edit
    Originally posted by Coletti

    What really disturbed me was the statement:

    “Personally I don't think that it is neccessary for a true believer to even preach one word to a non-believer.”

    How can someone believe what they have never heard?
    [/b]

    What really disturbed me was the statement:

    “Personally I don't think that it is neccessary for a true believer to even preach one word to a non-believer.”

    How can someone believe what they have never heard?


    The reason I said this was because there are many "Christains" that preach something yet live someting different. For example, they may preach that Christ can set you free from your sin, yet they themselves still live in sin and thus they are doing more harm than good to the gospel. What I was trying to say is that it is not always necessary to "preach with your mouth" but that you can also "live" the gospel by reaching out to others without saying a word about Christianity. They will see something in you (i.e. Christ living in you) and will most definately approach you if they see that you have something that they lack and if they desire to have that which you have. (This was just refering to our dialy lives as Christians at home or at work or wherever we may be. I am deffinately not saying that you should never preach to someone if the spirit leads you to do so. What I was trying to say is that we should live what we preach, preach what we live and preach with the lives that we live. In other words preach the message of the cross: "I no longer live, but Christ lives in me."
  14. NY
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    04 Apr '05 07:39
    its one thing to let the know about it.. its another to "brain wash them" and give them no other options other than those of what there parents believe from the day they are born... let them decide... "free will" remember...
  15. Joined
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    04 Apr '05 09:25
    I feel the greatest threat to Christianity is people like dj2becker and Darfius, who fail to grasp the subtleties of human understanding. Instead of approaching people with a faith which should teach acceptance and humility, compassion and patience, they bombard them with an assault, attempting to prove them wrong, to repent of their foolish beliefs and to admit that all the thinking they've ever done about the universe is redundant. It amazes me that they never stop to consider that they are doing more harm than good. No human being has humility and acceptance to just back down from their beliefs because someone else tells them to and it would be foolish to do so.

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