The human spirit and spirituality

Originally posted by LemonJello
Get a new shtick, jaywill.

You don't like Hendrix's song "I Don't Live Today"?

It reminds me very much of what the NT says about Christ giving us life.

" Thief comes not except to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life and have it abundantly. " (John 10:10)


Jesus comes to offer me life and life abundantly.

Some people hate that anyone would receive life through Jesus. Like the thief they come only to steal the blessing and kill spiritually and destroy the gospel.

I think that the divine life offered in Christ was the life that Hendrix and many others longed for. He may not have known it.

Paul called life in Christ the "the life that is really life" or "life indeed":


"Laying away for themselves a good foundation as a treasure for the future, that they may lay hold on that which is really life." (1 Tim. 6:19)

Through Jesus we can lay hold of the life which is REALLY LIFE. And we do not have to end up crying with Hendrix saying "Will I live tomorrow? I just can't say. ... I'm only sure I don't live today."


Now this is the verse I love. Talking about His resurrection, Jesus told the disciples:

"Because I live you also shall live" meaning we would really live through His resurrection from the dead.

Originally posted by jaywill
Spellbound? Impressed?

Oh please write it again?

Have you always been such a phony or did you learn that after you hit 70?

The only phony thing I see here is your pathetic assumption that you will impress anyone by quoting scriptures at them. at 70 I don't need to genuflect before some nebulous deity in order to feel worthwhile.
Good luck with your ramblings. 🙂

Originally posted by jaywill
You don't like Hendrix's song [b]"I Don't Live Today"?

It reminds me very much of what the NT says about Christ giving us life.

" Thief comes not except to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life and have it abundantly. " (John 10:10)


Jesus comes to offer me life and life abundantly.

Some people hate tha ...[text shortened]... ve"[/b] meaning we would really live through His resurrection from the dead.[/b]

Hey, whatever floats your ark, jaywill.

I just think your beliefs here are silly and arbitrary. Rigorously absurd, even. You've uttered failed to make any sort of interesting case for dualism. To your credit, though, you have been candid about your inability to defend your view.

Once an individual has been "made alive", does that mean he will no longer sin?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Once an individual has been "made alive", does that mean he will no longer sin?

If you noticed I said that the transformation of the soul takes a life time. Since it is a matter of growth and of process there is no immediate stopping of all sinning.

As the soul is transformed through cooperation with the sanctifying Spirit the believer is gradually freed from sinning.

Did you understand that? There is a process which takes a life long time to transform the sinning soul into the non-sinning image of Christ.

If you also remember I wrote something about the need for the believer to be "strengthened into the inner man" because he was not use to living out from that source.

Since there is the need to be strengthened into the inner man, as I wrote before, that implies the stronger the abiding in that realm the less that person should sin.

Does that make sense to you?


Now one thing is very important. And I will only elaborate on it briefly now. When one is born of God there is one part of one's being that CANNOT sin. One part at least of the human being is without sin and cannot sin. That is the regenerated spirit.



"Everyone who has been begotten of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him, and he cannot sin, because he has been begotten of God." (1 John 3:9)

"For everything that has been begotten of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that overcomes the world - our faith" (1 John 5:4)

The everything in this verse is the regenerated human spirit. It cannot sin. Or I should say that this indwelling Person cannot sin.

The "seed" is the life of God - the non-sinning God in Christ. The seed does not sin. The everything that has been begotten of God does not sin but overcomes the sinful world.

So the secret to ceasing from sin is to be strengthened more and more into that realm. The one who is strengthened into that realm of the divine nature, the divine seed, and the born of God human spirit does not practice sin.

It is obvious that we could not mistake the Apostle John to be saying that no born again Christian will ever sin for the simple fact that he writes earlier:

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9)

John expects that there will be a need for the disciples to confess their sins. Yet in the same letter he writes that the "seed" of divine life that has been implanted within the saved CANNOT sin. And it overcomes the world.

So the believers need the process of transformation and the process of being strengthened into the inner man. Gradually they are more and more delivered from the power of sin by abiding in Christ and walking in Christ.

Many thousands have learned these wonderful teachings and have applied them. Here are a few places where we put these wonderful truths to practice on the five continents of the globe:

www.localchurches.org

Here are many testimonies of the helpfulness of these teachings:

http://www.localchurches.org/testimonies/index-A-D.htm

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To your credit, though, you have been candid about your inability to defend your view.

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Don't give me credit for that because that is not what I wrote.

I said that I could not defend it against ALL atheistic and agnostic attacks. Neither will I waste time to try.

But good and honest questions are welcomed - even difficult ones. No problem.

"We know in part and we prophesy in part."

Millions are not like you fortunately. What they do grasp they put into practice with patience and faith. These many folks get the benefit.

Thankfully, not everyone is as hard hearted as you. And the glorious teaching of the apostles marches on.

Originally posted by jaywill
If you noticed I said that the transformation of the soul takes a life time. Since it is a matter of growth and of process there is no immediate stopping of all sinning.

As the soul is transformed through cooperation with the sanctifying Spirit the believer is gradually freed from sinning.

Did you understand that? There is a process which takes a li ...[text shortened]... ess of these teachings:

http://www.localchurches.org/testimonies/index-A-D.htm

What about this?

1 John 3:4 -9:
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

And this?

1 John 2:3 -6:
By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

For those who may be following along.

The divine birth brings into man the divine seed. One part of the saved person's being is actually God.

God cannot sin. And God is dispensed into the saved person as the divine seed.

Now you know every "seed" implies future growth and maturity. So birth is only a beginning. The new birth is only the beginning.


I love this passage about the divine seed.

"Everyone who has been begotten of God does not practice sin, because His SEED abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been begotten of God." (1 John 3:9)

The new birth brings into the saved in seed form, the life of God mingled with man. This divine seed cannot sin. And the one who is strengthened into this realm of His regenerated spirit comes under the power of that divine SEED. He overcomes sin and cannot sin as long as he is under the enfluence of the divine SEED.

Abiding in the SEED then is the way to victory over the sinful world:

"For everything that has been begotten of God overcomes the world, ..." (1 John 5:4a)


The "everything" is that innermost part of the believer that has been born of God. The regenerated human spirit overcomes the world. The regenerated human spirit cannot sin. And the one who is strengthened into that realm and sphere does not habitually practice sin.

This is the process which all believers in Christ are in, that is being conformed more and more to the image of the Christ by the growth and development of the divine seed that has been imparted within them.

These words are trustworthy.

Originally posted by jaywill
For those who may be following along.

The divine birth brings into man the divine seed. One part of the saved person's being is actually God.

God cannot sin. And God is dispensed into the saved person as the divine seed.

Now you know every "seed" implies future growth and maturity. So birth is only a beginning. The new birth is only the begin ...[text shortened]... the divine seed that has been imparted within them.

These words are trustworthy.

Can you address the post I made above?

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What about this?

1 John 3:4 -9:
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

============================

That doesn't contradict anything that I wrote.


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5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
================================


This does not contradict anything that I wrote.

What is your point in quoting this wonderful verse?


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6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
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This doesn't contradict anything that I wrote.

It does reflect the Apostle John's absolute style though. Taken in context with all the other things he wrote in the same letter, there is no confusion.

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7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

==============================

This confirms what I have been writing I think.

There is no descrepancy in this passage with any of the others from John or Paul that refered to.

This is really another way of saying "By their fruits you shall know them."


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8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

=======================================

I don't see how any of these passages contradict what I wrote.

All these passages only confirm that the transformation of the soul is a life long process.

As Paul said that he labored that Christ would be FORMED within the disciples in Galatia:

"My children, with whom I travail again in birth until Christ be formed in you." (Gal. 4:19)

Christ was born into them. Paul labored that that same Christ would be formed in them. That is that they would grow and mature in the indwelling life of Christ.

So the Christian is not so simple a person. He is in he process of having Christ formed in him.


This is the same as the divine seed growing in him. John is just making statements about the need to be given absolutely to this outcome. He is urging the believers on to the mature consummation in his customary absolutest way of speaking.

"If you are still sinning you have not seen God".


=================================

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

==========================

I elaborated a little on this passage. I pointed out that we cannot mistake John to mean that a Christian will never commit a sin. Otherwise he would not teach in the very same latter that we need to confess our sins that the blood of Christ may cleanse us and keep us in the free flowing divine fellowship with the Father.
And this?

================================
1 John 2:3 -6:
By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
=========================================

All wonderful passages. Thanks for your contributions.

None of them contradict anything I have been writing. None of them contradict what John himself wrote in the very same epistle.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Can you address the post I made above?

I did address your point.

Do you want me to do it again ?

How about you yourself tell me how I answered your question?

Look above at the post with these statements:

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Once an individual has been "made alive", does that mean he will no longer sin?


If you noticed I said that the transformation of the soul takes a life time. Since it is a matter of growth and of process there is no immediate stopping of all sinning.

As the soul is transformed through cooperation with the sanctifying Spirit the believer is gradually freed from sinning.

Did you understand that? There is a process which takes a life long time to transform the sinning soul into the non-sinning image of Christ. etc. etc. etc.

==========================================

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]=====================

What about this?

1 John 3:4 -9:
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

============================

That doesn't contradict anything that I wrote.


==============================
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in n writing. None of them contradict what John himself wrote in the very same epistle.

[/b]Earlier you said:
"Since it is a matter of growth and of process there is no immediate stopping of all sinning."

Does that mean you can be "made alive" without knowing Him?

Does that mean that you are following His commandments while you are sinning?

================================

Earlier you said:
"Since it is a matter of growth and of process there is no immediate stopping of all sinning."

Does that mean you can be "made alive" without knowing Him?

=======================================


ThinkofOne,


Do I have your full attention ?

Your first question:

===========================
Does that mean that you are following His commandments while you are sinning?
=====================

No you are not following His commandments while you are sinning. Especially in that specific commandment concerning which you fail to follow Him.



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Can a person be made alive and not know Him?
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I think it is very easy for a person to be made alive. As a result some people are born again and are not fully aware of it.

Do they know Him? They may have a very weak awareness of the indwelling Christ. As you grow you realize that you "know Him"' to a deeper and deeper degree.

You not only know Him to a deeper and deeper degree. You also know yourself also to a deeper and deeper degree.

Don't let John's way of speaking confuse you. He was very mature. He was very deeply experienced. And his speech often sounds absolute like - Either you know Him or you don't.

So I can be made alive and not know Him very well. Tomorrow when I obey the leading of the Spirit, I know Him better. Then I realize that in this area of my life I really don't know Him. Then I cooperate and He spreads into that area of my soul. Now I know Him better.

Yet I realize that in other areas I really don't know Him. The process of growing to know Him is life long.

I may know Him when I pray at night. But in the middle of an argument with my spouse I realize that I do not know Him. Then I open up and He gets into that area of my soul. I now know Him better.

Then I realize while driving in heavy traffic I really don't know Him. Gradually I allow Christ to take over my temper, my bad mood, my imagination. Now while driving in traffic I know Him more.

After many years of living the Christian life I look back are realize still how little I know Him. Until either I die or the Lord Jesus comes back I am ALWAYS in the process of getting to know Him better and deeper.

Do not let John's absolute way of speaking confuse you. You will ALSO notice that in the same letter he divides the believers up into three groups:


1.) Little children

2.) Young men

3.) Fathers

It should be common sense that John considers his audience to be at different levels of their knowledge of Christ. They are at different levels of maturity.

Please read this post over again a second time ThinkofOne.

If you asked another question above I'll review it and attempt to address that one latter.

Hi Jaywil,

Firstly, congrats for continuing against stones thrown from the side by the ignorant and the malicious!

The subject that you have tackled are actually very topical for those of us who think seriously about these things!

BBar's question about what part of us, exactly, it is that sins, it must obviously be the whole self, spirit soul and body. The sould get's the desire, does not control or reject it (i.e. evict the birds from your head!) and the body carries out the deed. The spirit, in this case, would want to stop the process, but because of neglect and intimidation does not have the authority to do so.

Are you familiar with Arthur Burk's teachings on this subject? I think it is under amythist.com (if my memory is wrong, I'll find it for you.)

The different emphases he places on the soul and the spirit are illuminating and exciting.

Key to this discussion - if you want to debate the finer points of quantum physics, don't bother about, or be put of by, those that deny the existence of multiplication tables and expect you to start there!

Go for it, and more strength to your elbow!

In peace,

CJ

Originally posted by CalJust
Hi Jaywil,

Firstly, congrats for continuing against stones thrown from the side by the ignorant and the malicious!

The subject that you have tackled are actually very topical for those of us who think seriously about these things!

BBar's question about what part of us, exactly, it is that sins, it must obviously be the whole self, spirit soul and ...[text shortened]... xpect you to start there!

Go for it, and more strength to your elbow!

In peace,

CJ

Thankyou Caljust,

I am not in the least put off by the career skeptics on the board. some of them seem think that everybody in the world has to think like they do.

I will have to respond to your post a little latter.

Thanks.