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"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." (KJV)
Interlinear:
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/15-13.htm
First, why only "his friends"? It might be more inclusively Christian to translate that as "those he holds dear" -- which presumably should include everybody: friends, family, slaves, enemies, strangers, immigrants, aliens, etc.
As for "lay [down] his life" -- I don't think the original word necessarily meant or implied dying for the sake of one's friends. It could be more broadly and helpfully read as dedicating one's life to the welfare of others, or at least to the welfare of those one holds dear.
But (if I may introduce a non-canonical text, "The Prayer of Saint Francis" [which wasn't actually written by St. Francis]), perhaps that could also be read as laying down the false life of the arbitrary and transitory ego, despite its pride and clutching at status and materiality and hopes for immortality, for the sake of everyone else, or at least of those one holds dear.
The Blackbird, The Stranger, and the Cabbage are One.
Amen
@kevin-eleven saidIt doesn't really ring true in most scenarios, to my way of thinking. So it may well be little more than a rather clunky insertion - into the most contrived and manipulative of the Gospels - that fits neatly with the dogmatic assertions about the "work" Christians claim Jesus did "on the cross".
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." (KJV)
@fmf saidWell, that's a first. I've never heard the Gospel of John described as "contrived and manipulative", even by atheists.
It doesn't really ring true in most scenarios, to my way of thinking. So it may well be little more than a rather clunky insertion - into the most contrived and manipulative of the Gospels - that fits neatly with the dogmatic assertions about the "work" Christians claim Jesus did "on the cross".
I'm thinking someone might have to have a large chip on their shoulder to claim such a thing.
@kevin-eleven saidI don’t have a strong opinion on this, nor a particularly informed one. Other than this:
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." (KJV)
First, why only "his friends"? It might be more inclusively Christian to translate that as "those he holds dear" -- which presumably should include everybody: friends, family, slaves, enemies, strangers, immigrants, aliens, etc.
Jesus describes two groups of people who will be at his marriage; his “bride”, which is the body of believers, and the “friends of the groom”, which are presumably not part of the body of believers but are in fact another group.
I believe that what Jesus is referring to in your OP is this group of friends of the groom, not fiends of the bride you notice!
The unbelievers, who are not part of the body of the church, but are the entire rest of humanity who he has lovingly saved from the catastrophic disaster of the alternate timeline described in Revelation.
These people do not generally describe Jesus as a “friend” but he regards them as such. To die for your bride is one thing, but to die for people who don’t even believe in you is another. Ultimate mercy and ultimate love.
02 Jul 21
@suzianne saidAny thoughts on the thread OP?
Well, that's a first. I've never heard the Gospel of John described as "contrived and manipulative", even by atheists.
I'm thinking someone might have to have a large chip on their shoulder to claim such a thing.
Or are you here to do just exactly what it is you bitterly complain about others doing?
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02 Jul 21
@kevin-eleven saidI think you may have lost this contributing comment. I'll place it here where maybe it best belongs.
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." (KJV)
Interlinear:
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/15-13.htm
First, why only "his friends"? It might be more inclusively Christian to translate that as "those he holds dear" -- which presumably should include everybody: friends, family, slaves, enemies, strangers, immigrants, ...[text shortened]... r at least of those one holds dear.
The Blackbird, The Stranger, and the Cabbage are One.
Amen
You seem to be saying that it wasn't Mary Poppins after all, is that right?
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02 Jul 21
1 edit
@kevin-eleven saidAnother lost item I'm returning to your collection of troll contributions.
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." (KJV)
Interlinear:
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/15-13.htm
First, why only "his friends"? It might be more inclusively Christian to translate that as "those he holds dear" -- which presumably should include everybody: friends, family, slaves, enemies, strangers, immigrants, ...[text shortened]... r at least of those one holds dear.
The Blackbird, The Stranger, and the Cabbage are One.
Amen
Good thing you never got captivated by Moon Knight.
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02 Jul 21
@kevin-eleven saidYou mean you're not going instead for
@sonship
I think the phrase is "turn the other cheek," not "return the cheek." 😉
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious ?
08 Jul 21
@fmf saidOf course you don't, I was talking about you.
I don't think you are using the expression "chip on one's shoulder" correctly.
The truth of it is self-evident. Except, you know, to you.
Even IF you agreed, you wouldn't say so, as that would be against your agenda.
08 Jul 21
@divegeester saidSince you ask, my opinion of the OP is that it is a bollocks swipe at scripture.
Any thoughts on the thread OP?
Or are you here to do just exactly what it is you bitterly complain about others doing?
And hey, spinmaster, I do not "bitterly" complain. I just complain - about idiots. Of course, you would spin this as "bitter" because you are one of the idiots I complain about most.