1. Standard memberWulebgr
    Angler
    River City
    Joined
    08 Dec '04
    Moves
    16907
    20 Dec '05 17:00
    Originally posted by thesonofsaul
    Ah. My mistake. However, his perception of human maturity is still astounding.
    Indeed it is.
  2. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
    Joined
    09 Sep '01
    Moves
    27626
    20 Dec '05 17:03
    Originally posted by thesonofsaul
    Ah. My mistake. However, his perception of human maturity is still astounding.
    What about "human nature" would prevent them from being able to function without maintaining their trust in any deities? I think mankind would mature quite a bit if they faced up to their radical freedom in the universe instead of looking in vain to some deity, or another, for all the answers. We no longer have any real need for any gods, messiahs, or ecclesiatical potentates.
  3. Standard memberthesonofsaul
    King of the Ashes
    Trying to rise ....
    Joined
    16 Jun '04
    Moves
    63851
    20 Dec '05 17:07
    Originally posted by rwingett
    What about "human nature" would prevent them from being able to function without maintaining their trust in any deities? I think mankind would mature quite a bit if they faced up to their radical freedom in the universe instead of looking in vain to some deity, or another, for all the answers. We no longer have any real need for any gods, messiahs, or ecclesiatical potentates.
    What's really amazing is how many words you used here without clarifying your position. What prevents humanity from taking the stance you propose? Well, I don't really believe this, but a possible answer could be, well, um, immaturity.
  4. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
    Joined
    09 Sep '01
    Moves
    27626
    20 Dec '05 17:11
    Originally posted by thesonofsaul
    What's really amazing is how many words you used here without clarifying your position. What prevents humanity from taking the stance you propose? Well, I don't really believe this, but a possible answer could be, well, um, immaturity.
    So you think believing in an absurd deity is a sign of maturity? I would think quite the opposite.
  5. Hmmm . . .
    Joined
    19 Jan '04
    Moves
    22131
    20 Dec '05 17:18
    Originally posted by rwingett
    We have outgrown messiahs. It is time to walk on our own.
    The other day I saw a book by a Reform rabbi, Robert N. Levine: There is No Messiah—And You’re It.

    Anyway, I think you’re right.
  6. Standard memberthesonofsaul
    King of the Ashes
    Trying to rise ....
    Joined
    16 Jun '04
    Moves
    63851
    20 Dec '05 17:19
    Originally posted by rwingett
    So you think believing in an absurd deity is a sign of maturity? I would think quite the opposite.
    That's what I'm saying. Do you have your reverse glasses on again? We do, at least a majority of us do, believe in at least superstition, if not outright deities. This is a possible sign if immaturity. The real signs of immaturity of course are wars, violence, selfishness, deceit, mistrust, etc.

    Just to recap, I am saying that humanity is immature, and you are saying that humanity is mature. If you don't believe this, then you had best issue a retraction of your first post here.
  7. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
    Joined
    09 Sep '01
    Moves
    27626
    20 Dec '05 17:24
    Originally posted by thesonofsaul
    That's what I'm saying. Do you have your reverse glasses on again? We do, at least a majority of us do, believe in at least superstition, if not outright deities. This is a possible sign if immaturity. The real signs of immaturity of course are wars, violence, selfishness, deceit, mistrust, etc.

    Just to recap, I am saying that humanity is imma ...[text shortened]... ture. If you don't believe this, then you had best issue a retraction of your first post here.
    I am saying that humanity is mature enough not to have any need for any deities. Whether their collective maturity could use any improvement, or not, is another story.
  8. Standard memberHalitose
    I stink, ergo I am
    On the rebound
    Joined
    14 Jul '05
    Moves
    4464
    20 Dec '05 17:25
    Originally posted by rwingett
    We have outgrown messiahs. It is time to walk on our own.
    Would human maturity dispel the need for any type of leadership?
  9. Standard memberBosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    Spiel des Lebens
    Joined
    27 Jan '05
    Moves
    90892
    20 Dec '05 17:27
    Originally posted by Halitose
    Would human maturity dispel the need for any type of leadership?
    Unquestionably.
  10. Standard memberBosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    Spiel des Lebens
    Joined
    27 Jan '05
    Moves
    90892
    20 Dec '05 17:28
    Originally posted by thesonofsaul
    You're perception of the maturity of the human race is astounding. Especially when your furum title is "Wobbly".
    He said we not the human race. Out with it wingett--what cult have you subscribed to?
  11. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
    Joined
    09 Sep '01
    Moves
    27626
    20 Dec '05 17:31
    Originally posted by Halitose
    Would human maturity dispel the need for any type of leadership?
    How did we go from messiahs to "any type of leadership"? I specifically mentioned "gods, messiahs, and ecclesiastical potentates." I had not called for the removal of all leaders (at least not in this post). But as it happens, being partial to anarchism, I think mankind could do just fine without any leaders.
  12. Standard memberHalitose
    I stink, ergo I am
    On the rebound
    Joined
    14 Jul '05
    Moves
    4464
    20 Dec '05 17:44
    Originally posted by rwingett
    How did we go from messiahs to "any type of leadership"? I specifically mentioned "gods, messiahs, and ecclesiastical potentates." I had not called for the removal of all leaders (at least not in this post). But as it happens, being partial to anarchism, I think mankind could do just fine without any leaders.
    Well, I had deduced from messiahs (and the entailed spiritual leadership) that this could be applied to political figureheads too.

    Anarchism? Do you think without rigid enforcement of justice and the rule of law (which requires some form of hierarchy), humanity would live in tranquility and prosperity?
  13. Standard memberWulebgr
    Angler
    River City
    Joined
    08 Dec '04
    Moves
    16907
    20 Dec '05 17:49
    Originally posted by rwingett
    What about "human nature" would prevent them from being able to function without maintaining their trust in any deities? I think mankind would mature quite a bit if they faced up to their radical freedom in the universe instead of looking in vain to some deity, or another, for all the answers. We no longer have any real need for any gods, messiahs, or ecclesiatical potentates.
    But if we had matured to that point, we would all become either Wobblies or stinking Capitalists.
  14. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
    Joined
    09 Sep '01
    Moves
    27626
    20 Dec '05 18:01
    Originally posted by Wulebgr
    But if we had matured to that point, we would all become either Wobblies or stinking Capitalists.
    Aren't we all one or the other now?
  15. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
    Joined
    09 Sep '01
    Moves
    27626
    20 Dec '05 18:08
    Originally posted by Halitose
    Well, I had deduced from messiahs (and the entailed spiritual leadership) that this could be applied to political figureheads too.

    Anarchism? Do you think without rigid enforcement of justice and the rule of law (which requires some form of hierarchy), humanity would live in tranquility and prosperity?
    I don't think we need a hierarchical system to have order and justice. Of course mankind will likely never live in tranquility (prosperity, perhaps, but tranquility is a stretch). But preventing someone from commiting murder does not require a hierarchy. Anarchism is not the freedom to do whatever you want, free from any constraints.
Back to Top

Cookies help us deliver our Services. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Learn More.I Agree