The Righteous Heathen

A question to all you theists. If a person lives their life according to an ethical and moral code comparable with that prescribed by your religion, but remains happy to reject said credo, often and explicitly, what do you imagine happens to their 'soul' upon their demise?

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
A question to all you theists. If a person lives their life according to an ethical and moral code comparable with that prescribed by your religion, but remains happy to reject said credo, often and explicitly, what do you imagine happens to their 'soul' upon their demise?

The "creed" of the New Testament is to receive the available and living Jesus Christ into your heart that He may live within you.

Did you think the creed of the Christian faith was to live by 10, 20, 30 or more commandments? Then your're a good Christian ?

This is a mistake. The "creed" of the New Testament is that Christ is risen, is available in His form as the Holy Spirit, and can be imparted into you innermost spiritual being.

So Jesus told His disciples that the creed of His teaching was that He and His Father, as the Divine We, would come to make an abode within His lovers. Right here:

"Jesus answered and said to him, I anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23)

Do you understand? Jesus said the Christian life is that the Father and the Son come into the believer and make an abode with him.

Paul locates Jesus Christ in two places in Romans 8. Jesus is at one time at the right hand of God (Rom. 8:34) and on the other hand in the believers (Rom. 8:10)

The creed of the Christian gospel is that we need eternal redemption from the Lord's death on Calvary that He might come in His resurrection and available form as the life giving Spirit and make an abode with us.

"The last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

Originally posted by jaywill
The "creed" of the New Testament is to receive the available and living Jesus Christ into your heart that He may live within you.

Did you think the creed of the Christian faith was to live by 10, 20, 30 or more commandments? Then your're a good Christian ?

This is a mistake. The "creed" of the New Testament is that Christ is risen, is available in ...[text shortened]... n abode with us.

[b]"The last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)[/b]

So you are saying that somebody who commits evil acts but who 'lets Jesus into his heart' will be forgiven and rewarded by heaven, while someone who live the life of a saint but rejects the concept of 'Christ' is damned?

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
So you are saying that somebody who commits evil acts but who 'lets Jesus into his heart' will be forgiven and rewarded by heaven, while someone who live the life of a saint but rejects the concept of 'Christ' is damned?

I will be back latter and reply.

In the mean time, do you have a New Testament ?
Why not read it for yourself ?

John chapters 1 through 5.
Romans chapters 1 through 4, prayerfully asking God to open your eyes to what He would speak to you expressly.

Originally posted by jaywill
I will be back latter and reply.

In the mean time, do you have a New Testament ?
Why not read it for yourself ?

John chapters 1 through 5.
Romans chapters 1 through 4, prayerfully asking God to open your eyes to what He would speak to you [b]expressly.[/b]

Read it. Wanted the opinions of believers.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
Read it. Wanted the opinions of believers.

Here is an interesting passage which absolutely no Christian could explain properly.

Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

It says (my words)

1. God does not care if you are Jew or Gentile
2. God will punish evildoers and reward those who do good deeds regardless of who they are.
3. There are many who know of no law - either the Law of Moses or the Law of Christ, but their conscience guides them to do good deeds nevertheless.
4. These good people will be judged by Christ.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Here is an interesting passage which absolutely no Christian could explain properly.

[quote]Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no res ...[text shortened]... ience guides them to do good deeds nevertheless.
4. These good people will be judged by Christ.

Good points. And actually your 4th one is a side point showing the Trinity is not true as God is allowing Christ to do the judging work. If they were they same then this scripture would not make sense.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
A question to all you theists. If a person lives their life according to an ethical and moral code comparable with that prescribed by your religion, but remains happy to reject said credo, often and explicitly, what do you imagine happens to their 'soul' upon their demise?

They die.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
Read it. Wanted the opinions of believers.

=============================
Read it. Wanted the opinions of believers.
=============================

I suggested that you do some reading in the New Testament and you reply that you want rather to opinions of believers.

Okay then, I will give you an opinion. Do not waste time trying to find out how Jesus handles every hypothetical situation with this or that person over here and over there.

Rather consider what your situation is before God.
Do you intend to live a sin free life from this moment onward?
If you do, what about the sins of the past up until today?
How will that record before God be cleared up ?

It is exceedingly doubtful that from this day onward you will live free from sinning. Even if you do there is still your past.

If you trust in Jesus as Savior, it is not a matter of God overlooking your sins. It is a matter that they have been judged by God already on the cross of Jesus. In His death justice was accomplished upon the Son of God on behalf of the believer in Christ. If you receive Jesus as your Savior you were already judged on Calvary.

Of you believe in Christ you need not beg for forgiveness. You only need to thank God that He is righteous to keep His covenant and forgive and forget your sons. He no longer remembers them if you receive Jesus.

You have a new start with a new divine union with God Himself. Everyday you have a new beginning. God is not interested in you goveling on the ground begging for forgiveness. He rather accepts your faith. You only need to thank God that your sins have been judged already in the body of Jesus Christ at His death.

If you receive Christ God looks at you as if you had never sinned at all. Christ Himself becomes your righteousness. Christ Himself becomes your history.

That is all the opinion I will give in this post.
What is YOUR situation before God ? Draw a circle around yourself and yourself alone. Forget you many hypothetical cases. We cannot answer them all anyway.

Rather what will avalanchethecat do with the good news of Christ the Savior?

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]=============================
Read it. Wanted the opinions of believers.
=============================

I suggested that you do some reading in the New Testament and you reply that you want rather to opinions of believers.

Okay then, I will give you an opinion. Do not waste time trying to find out how Jesus handles every hypothetica ...[text shortened]... anyway.

Rather what will avalanchethecat do with the good news of Christ the Savior?[/b]

So a man that murders and rapes can be accepted into heaven, but a man who spends his whole life helping others, but does not believe, is damned.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
A question to all you theists. If a person lives their life according to an ethical and moral code comparable with that prescribed by your religion, but remains happy to reject said credo, often and explicitly, what do you imagine happens to their 'soul' upon their demise?

Two words, "crispy cridders". Just kidding....or am I?

I will follow your question with another question. If one were to "earn" their way into heaven, at what point would that be? Would it be because they have more "good" works than "bad"? If so, what of people who are middle of the road?

All world religions seem to take this approach. Just do "good" works and cross your fingers. However, it is only Christianity that teaches us that "good" works do not cancel out "bad" deeds. In fact, even if I were to only commit one sin, like murder, I would should still stand trial for that sin. However, the "good news" is that through our advocate Jesus Christ we can overcome this condemnation because someone else has decided to pay for our sins.

Another perespective is that all "good" comes from God. In other words, we are wired to love one another so any love we show towards our fellow man is simply and outflow of his ultimate "goodness". However, we have the choice to reject this inner voice of doing unto others as you would have them do to you. In this case, we have transgressed the law.

Having said that, I am also mindful of warnings not to prejudge. It is of no use to sit back and judge who goes to hell or heaven. Why should I especially in light of the fact that I am not making these decisions? What I can say is that some of those who have died before Christ came made it to heaven, but it is my belief that only through Christs ultimate sacrifice was that later possible. So what of people who never hear the "good news"? what of people who are decieved? All I can do is proclaim the "good news" and let the chips fall where they may.

Originally posted by Starrman
So a man that murders and rapes can be accepted into heaven, but a man who spends his whole life helping others, but does not believe, is damned.

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So a man that murders and rapes can be accepted into heaven, but a man who spends his whole life helping others, but does not believe, is damned.
=================================

You must not think that Christ's salvation consists solely of forgiveness.

You must not think of Christ's salvation as merely transporting ruined people to a happy place.

In the eternal purpose of God there is something that a human being can get, and there is something that a human being cannot get.

1.) What he can get - he can get to be forgiven of every sin he has ever committed and looked upon by God as if he never sinned at all.

2.) What he cannot get - he cannot get to remain the same kind of person he was as when he sinned forever.

Forgiveness, Starrman, is not an end in itself. Forgiveness is step towards a greater end. And that is conformation into the image of Christ. Every sinner must and will be transformed into the image of Christ to be like Christ.

The destiny is not heaven. The destiny is the image of Christ the Firstborn Son of God. Right here:

"Because those whom he foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers.

And those whom He predestinated, these He also called; and those whom He called, these He also justified; and those whom He justified; these He also glorified," (Rom. 8:29,30)

The fallen sinner and God are incompatible. God does not change. So God must change the forgiven sinner. This heals the sinner of the root of his problem and also fulfills God's need to have many sons of God, brothers of Christ the Firstborn Son.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]================================
So a man that murders and rapes can be accepted into heaven, but a man who spends his whole life helping others, but does not believe, is damned.
=================================

You must not think that Christ's salvation consists solely of forgiveness.

You must not think of Christ's salvation ...[text shortened]... nd also fulfills God's need to have many sons of God, brothers of Christ the Firstborn Son.[/b]

I'll take that as a yes.

So if a man then murders once again, having found Christ, what then?

Originally posted by Starrman
I'll take that as a yes.

So if a man then murders once again, having found Christ, what then?

And all you Christians are entirely happy with that? Happy with a god that rewards an persistent evil-doer who says sorry with eternal life, but consigns a sceptical saint to either eternal damnation or to be just snuffed out? For goodness' sake! What's the matter with you? Use your god-given critical faculties, why don't you.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
And all you Christians are entirely happy with that? Happy with a god that rewards an persistent evil-doer who says sorry with eternal life, but consigns a sceptical saint to either eternal damnation or to be just snuffed out? For goodness' sake! What's the matter with you? Use your god-given critical faculties, why don't you.

This just underscores your ignorance of what causes God to call a saint as such.