1. Melbourne, Australia
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    13 Mar '13 03:01
    Oh, that they were burning ancient sexist edicts to make that smoke! We have female queens, amazons and warriors, prime ministers and presidents - would that there would be one day a female pope! Half world stand to the side, you may as well not exist. Ah , but don't you know? 'Eve' caused all the sin in the world! A bastion of the dark ages. still with all sorts of sexual and excluding hangups. Let a courageous new pope try dropping the abnormal celibacy, suppression of women, rejection of homosexuality, and seek some sensible approaches to contraception to alleviate poverty and hunger in a hugely populated world. Unlikely in the extreme. Change is due in more ways than a new Pope. So much power, so little changed in centuries.

    ....And some of that applies to other religions that suppress full female participation and equality, including Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, and Judaism.
  2. Standard memberhakima
    Illumination
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    13 Mar '13 04:48
    That broken-open lowliness is the reality,
    not the language! Forget phraseology.
    I want burning, 'burning'.
    Be friends
    with your burning. Burn up your thinking
    and your forms of expression!...
    --Rumi


    It works so much the better for me when I hold the match to my own pyre.
    --Hakima


    Thank you, beloved Friend for the insight! _()_
  3. Melbourne, Australia
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    13 Mar '13 06:381 edit
    Originally posted by hakima
    That broken-open lowliness is the reality,
    not the language! Forget phraseology.
    I want burning, 'burning'.
    Be friends
    with your burning. Burn up your thinking
    and your forms of expression!...
    --Rumi


    It works so much the better for me when I hold the match to my own pyre.
    --Hakima


    Thank you, beloved Friend for the insight! _()_
    Ah, I need to read more Rumi -a man of great heart and wisdom. Thank you Hakima.
  4. SubscriberSuzianne
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    13 Mar '13 15:04
    Originally posted by Taoman
    Oh, that they were burning ancient sexist edicts to make that smoke! We have female queens, amazons and warriors, prime ministers and presidents - would that there would be one day a female pope! Half world stand to the side, you may as well not exist. Ah , but don't you know? 'Eve' caused all the sin in the world! A bastion of the dark ages. still with all s ...[text shortened]... ess full female participation and equality, including Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, and Judaism.
    You want a woman pope?

    Well, first you have to have women priests.

    Then you have to not stand in their way when they try to move up the hierarchy.

    Then you have to have enough cardinals voting for one at the conclave.

    They can't even get the first step going, let alone any of the others.




    By the way, The Episcopal Church does not "suppress full female participation and equality". In fact, since 2006, the current Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church is Katharine Jefferts Schori, the first female Primate in the Anglican Communion.
  5. Joined
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    13 Mar '13 18:38
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    You want a woman pope?

    Well, first you have to have women priests.

    Then you have to not stand in their way when they try to move up the hierarchy.

    Then you have to have enough cardinals voting for one at the conclave.

    They can't even get the first step going, let alone any of the others.




    By the way, The Episcopal Church does not "suppre ...[text shortened]... opal Church is Katharine Jefferts Schori, the first female Primate in the Anglican Communion.
    Impressive!

    "She attended school in New Jersey, then went on to earn a Bachelor of Science in biology from Stanford University in 1974, a Master of Science in oceanography in 1977 and a Ph.D. in 1983, also in oceanography, from Oregon State University. She earned her Master of Divinity in 1994 from the Church Divinity School of the Pacific[3] and was ordained priest that year. She served as assistant rector at the Church of the Good Samaritan, Corvallis, Oregon, where she had special responsibility for pastoring the Hispanic community (she speaks Spanish fluently) and was in charge of adult education programs."

    - Wikipedia
  6. Melbourne, Australia
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    14 Mar '13 11:052 edits
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    You want a woman pope?

    Well, first you have to have women priests.

    Then you have to not stand in their way when they try to move up the hierarchy.

    Then you have to have enough cardinals voting for one at the conclave.

    They can't even get the first step going, let alone any of the others.




    By the way, The Episcopal Church does not "suppre opal Church is Katharine Jefferts Schori, the first female Primate in the Anglican Communion.
    We agree, Suzianne. In all the religions I mentioned (and I was referring to the Roman Catholic Church's sexism, not all Christian churches, of whom some thankfully show more enlightenment on these issues) there are pockets of non-sexist practice, but the major Roman Catholic and Orthodox streams practice it, as do some of the Protestant streams.

    These religions can have female communities of nuns teaching/nursing/tending that are usually led by nuns, but as to church/temple/mosque/synagogue leadership there is unfortunately a severe lack. There is also the keeping women meekly in the background stuff in worship etc.

    Religions tend to be bastions of patriarchy,as has much of society until things began to change at the start of the 20th century. It is now the 21st century, perhaps by the 22nd century we might see some more changes. Btw Ms Clinton could be a good and first female President of the US. I'll barrack for her - not that the US is a religious organisation.

    The Pope has a great deal of power in his position, not as a state but by way of the human emotions and allegiances. A progressive Pope is sorely needed, but progressive leaders tend not to emerge from men of 70+ years age.
  7. SubscriberSuzianne
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    15 Mar '13 01:20
    Originally posted by Taoman
    We agree, Suzianne. In all the religions I mentioned (and I was referring to the Roman Catholic Church's sexism, not all Christian churches, of whom some thankfully show more enlightenment on these issues) there are pockets of non-sexist practice, but the major Roman Catholic and Orthodox streams practice it, as do some of the Protestant streams.

    These re ...[text shortened]... e Pope is sorely needed, but progressive leaders tend not to emerge from men of 70+ years age.
    Yes, I agree, the RCC does have a long history of suppression where women are concerned. Yes, sexism is rampant.

    As a Jesuit, the new pope may indeed be more progressive, certainly I see more attention being given to the poor and other humanitarian issues under his leadership.

    My local priest in our Episcopal church is also a woman, and I actually enjoy going to church more these days as a result. We've had more outreach locally to women's rights groups and shelters recently and that makes me happy, too. Reminds me of being back in school, my sorority did much good work with battered women's shelters.
  8. SubscriberSuzianne
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    15 Mar '13 01:29
    Originally posted by JS357
    Impressive!

    "She attended school in New Jersey, then went on to earn a Bachelor of Science in biology from Stanford University in 1974, a Master of Science in oceanography in 1977 and a Ph.D. in 1983, also in oceanography, from Oregon State University. She earned her Master of Divinity in 1994 from the Church Divinity School of the Pacific[3] and was ordain ...[text shortened]... y (she speaks Spanish fluently) and was in charge of adult education programs."

    - Wikipedia
    We are very proud of her within the church. Unfortunately, there's been a breakaway conservative movement within our church lately, and I don't think that bodes well for us as an organization.

    I also heard that this new pope taught chemistry. With any luck at all, maybe we'll see more acceptance of mainstream science from the Vatican. The RCC already owns a big telescope on Kitt Peak here in Arizona. As they say, time will tell.
  9. Standard memberRJHinds
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    15 Mar '13 01:30
    There is always a chance there will be a woman Pope in the future, since we can now be sure this new Pope will not be the last one because his name is Francis. 😏
  10. SubscriberSuzianne
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    15 Mar '13 01:31
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    There is always a chance there will be a woman Pope in the future, since we can now be sure this new Pope will not be the last one because his name is Francis. 😏
    Every once in a while, Ron, you make me smile.
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