1. Standard membersonshiponline
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    22 Nov '16 15:02
    In the church the problem of racism can be swallowed up and solved by the Trinity of God. But the saved must be saturated with and permeated with the life of the Triune God for a solution to the divisions of racism.

    If Christians wish to be saved from racism they must be filled with the Triune God. The oneness of the Trinity will swallow up the divisions between peoples and peoples including the hostility of racism.

    This perfecting and process of being made one can take place in the normal practical church life.

    Some Christians are making the escape. And as in the older days, the writer's exhortation is relevant. We should be " imitators of those who are inheriting the promises" - (Hebrews 6:12)

    Since the Father does not despise the Son as to the color of His skin or ethnicity, if we are filled with the Father and the Son's Spirit we may allow the Trinity to save us from prejudice.

    The Holy Spirit does not look down on the Father because His accent is not right. So if the Holy Spirit and the Father can transfuse their very oneness into us we can be saved from ethinic strife, racial prejudice, and racism.

    This is really good news. The Trinity will save us from racism.

    Do you think that the Son of God turns up His nose at the skin color of the Father or the Holy Spirit ? Do you think the Holy Spirit is envious and suspicious of the advantages the Son has gained because of His Jewish ethnicity ?

    They of the Triune God are in eternal and utter harmonious oneness.
    Such a oneness must be infused into mankind to save us from racism.
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    22 Nov '16 15:08
    Where is racism specifically mentioned as a sin.

    Jesus called a woman a dog because she wasn't Jewish. He made quite a racist statement. Did Jesus sin?
  3. Standard membersonshiponline
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    22 Nov '16 15:432 edits
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Where is racism specifically mentioned as a sin.


    I don't think the word "racism" is ever mentioned in the Bible.

    Neither is Methamphetamine.

    But when the Apostle Paul says that in the one new man of the Body of Christ, there CANNOT be Jew or Greek, I am pretty sure that this is a blow to whatever we would define today by the more modern term of "racism".

    " For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

    There cannot be Jew nor Greek, there cannot be slave nor free man, there cannot be male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:27,28)


    By way of logical extrapolation we should understand that there also, in the Body of Christ, cannot be social stratification based on White and Yellow or Brown and Black or Black and White or Red and White.

    "You are all one in Christ."


    Jesus called a woman a dog because she wasn't Jewish. He made quite a racist statement. Did Jesus sin?


    This is a good point. But notice that whatever distance there was socially between the Jewish ethnicity and the Canaanite woman didn't last long in the conversation. He did not conclude His encounter with a wall between the His Jewishness and her Canaanitish-ness.. Rather He brought her near as a co-enjoyer of grace because of her faith.

    " .. she came and worshipped Him, saying, Lord, help me! (Matt. 18:25)

    But He answered and said, It is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs. (v.26)

    And she said, Yes, Lord, for even the little dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. (v.27)

    Then Jesus answered and said to her, O woman, great is your faith! Be it done to you as you wish. And her daughter was healed from that hour." (v.28)


    1.) Yes, Jesus did want the Canaanite that in God's eyes there was a difference between the Jews and the Canaanites.

    2.) Yes, Jesus did compare the Canaanites to unclean dogs in relation to the godly Jews.

    3.) But when the woman reminded the Messiah that the Gentiles benefit from the Jewish Messiah nonetheless, Jesus marveled at her perception into God's eventual universal salvation of all peoples through the Jewish Messiah.

    Her faith absolutely united her with all her Canaanite ethnicity to the same blessing entitled to the theocratic peoples of the Jews. She was far off racially. But she was brought near in Christ.

    This is consistent with the whole tenor of the New Testament.

    " Therefore remember that once you, the Gentiles in the flesh, those who are called uncircumcision by that which is called circumcision in the flesh made by hands,

    That you were at that time apart from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants and the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

    But now in Christ Jesus you who were once far off have become near in the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, He who has broken down the middle wall of partition, the enmity,

    Abolishing in His flesh the law of the commandments in ordinances, that He might create the two in Himself into one new man, so making peace." (Eph. 2:11-15)
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    22 Nov '16 15:471 edit
    Yes Jesus agreed that the dog deserves scraps.

    Nice to know that you agree that there is nothing inherently sinful in racism. Of course some may sin rooted in that belief but in itself it is not sinful.

    Too much humanistic liberal beliefs get attributed to God.
  5. Standard membersonshiponline
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    22 Nov '16 16:173 edits
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Yes Jesus agreed that the dog deserves scraps.


    In the Ephesian passage the term "one new man" does not suggest that the Gentiles only get the inferior scraps. Rather it suggests that one humanity partakes of one grand blessing.

    Your "scraps under the table" in the Matthew passage really finally equate to co-equal enjoyment of all that God has for a united oneness of all races in "ONE ... new man".


    Nice to know that you agree that there is nothing inherently sinful in racism. Of course some may sin rooted in that belief but in itself it is not sinful.


    The question you asked was not about the sinfulness or non-sinfulness of racism. You asked WHERE is it mentioned.

    I told you it was not specifically. There is no need to be eager to jump from this to a conclusion that racism (depending on how we define it) is not sinful.

    So we move now to that aspect of the discussion.

    If you mean that there are different races. That in and of itself may not be sinful.
    Just as if you say there are different SEXES, that in and of itself is not a problem.

    " There cannot be Jew nor Greek, there cannot be slave or free man, there cannot be male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

    And if you are of Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, heirs according to promise." (Gal. 3:28,29)


    Of course Paul does not mean the physically MALES are no longer MALES and FEMALES are no longer FEMALES. He means that the stratification of causes oppression of one group over the other so damaging the expression of the oneness of the church, [b ]"cannot be"[/b].

    In the same way, it is not that Greeks cease physically to be Greeks or Jews physically cease to be Jews.

    It is that the despising of one group against the other or the oppression of one over the other or the jealousy, envy, discord, strife, contempt, hatred, and other divisive attitudes CANNOT BE in the church life.

    It is not a matter of there SHOULD NOT be as in "that is not nice of you".
    It is rather a matter of the IMPOSSIBILITY to have the church and have these kinds of oppressive divisions between the racial groups.

    "If you want the church of Jesus Christ, you CANNOT have Jew and Greek divisiveness."

    Conversely, if you want divisive racial animosity to thrive, then you CANNOT have the new covenant church. The two matters are mutually exclusive.

    Before this we have verse 26 obliterating racial divisions ruining the unity of the Christian church in that ALL who are baptized into Christ are equally "sons of God"

    "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

    There cannot be Jew nor Greek ... etc, etc."



    Too much humanistic liberal beliefs get attributed to God.


    This kind of organic oneness cannot be achieved apart from being buried in Christ and putting on Christ. It is not a matter of a feel good liberalism.

    If you oppose it, you must oppose Christ's intention to build His church.
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    22 Nov '16 16:201 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    Yes Jesus agreed that the dog deserves scraps.


    In the [b]Ephesian
    passage the term "one new man" does not suggest that the Gentiles only get the inferior scraps. Rather it suggests that one humanity partakes of one grand blessing.

    Your "scraps under the table" in the Matthew passage really finally equate to c ...[text shortened]... l good liberalism.

    If you oppose it, you must oppose Christ's intention to build His church.[/b]
    You are a voice for the humanists.
  7. Standard membersonshiponline
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    22 Nov '16 16:352 edits
    Originally posted by Eladar
    You are a voice for the humanists.


    I am voicing rather the heart and essence of the New Testament.

    1.) Humanism would not encourage people to "put on Christ" in Paul's sense.
    Humanism may say, "Imitate Jesus." But they would not teach that Jesus is ALIVE and in anyway can actually be "put on"

    "For as many as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." (v.27)


    2.) Humanism would usually steer people AWAY from theism and AWAY from God.
    The New Testament's oneness of the Body of Christ cannot be achieved without God.

    Men have to have God's life imparted into them. So Paul says they are "sons of God" to be organically born to this oneness.

    "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus." (v.26)


    3.) At best, Humanism might say we are all brothers in a kind of brotherhood of man. But Humanism would certainly downplay any necessity for being "into Christ" or being related to God.

    I think Humanism is basically Atheistic. Though some Unitarians border on theistic Humanists. But then again they would not teach any need to be - "baptizes into Christ Jesus" would they ?

    So I am more a voice for the word of God in the New Testament. Jesus said that He would build His church and that the gates of Hades would not prevail against it.

    Racism has proven usually to be part of these gates of Hades making war against the church of Christ. You know in the US it was said that the most segregated hour was 11:00 am Sunday morning.

    This has been hugely self defeating to Christians. Jesus said that such self defeating expressions of spiritual death would not prevail against the church which He builds.

    So let us let Him build His church which can overcome the divisions of racism.

    "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." (Matt. 16:18)


    Do you want to bring Jesus back? I do. Then I have to drop my racial bias for the sake that I cannot have it and the Lord's builded up church too.
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    22 Nov '16 16:50
    The humanism is talking about racism.

    You are making a non issue an issue. You show that you are more concerned with politics than Christ. You use Christ for you political agenda
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    22 Nov '16 17:212 edits
    Originally posted by sonship
    In the church the problem of racism can be swallowed up and solved by the Trinity of God. But the saved must be saturated with and permeated with the life of the Triune God for a solution to the divisions of racism.

    If Christians wish to be saved from racism they must be filled with the Triune God. The oneness of the Trinity will swallow up the divisions ...[text shortened]... utter harmonious oneness.
    Such a oneness must be infused into mankind to save us from racism.
    The Holy Spirit does not look down on the Father because His accent is not right. So if the Holy Spirit and the Father can transfuse their very oneness into us we can be saved from ethinic strife, racial prejudice, and racism.

    What of the Christians who ARE racist and/or xenophobic? Why do you think they are not guided by the Holy Spirit? Even though a large percentage of them would claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit?
  10. Standard membersonshiponline
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    22 Nov '16 17:515 edits
    Originally posted by Eladar
    [b]The humanism is talking about racism.
    The humanism is talking about racism.


    Racism is a problem which also effects God accomlishing the buiding up of the "one new man". Do you deny this ?

    It makes little sense to say that Humanist talk of Racism so for Christians to talk of Racism makes them Humanists.

    The works of the flesh enumerated by Paul are sins which can exclude Christians from inheriting the kingdom of God. Included in these "works of the flesh" are sins which often accompany racial prejudice.

    "But this I say, Walk by the Spirit and you shall by no means fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh; for these oppose each other that you would not do the things that you desire." (Gal. 5:16,17)


    This is undoubtably an exhortation about letting the Holy Spirit save the Christian from the negative sins of the flesh (the fallen humanity). Now Paul goes on to enumerate some reprentative sins of the flesh, which he calls "the works of the flesh."

    "And the works of the flesh are manifest, which are such things as
    fornication,
    uncleaness,
    lasciviousness,
    idolatry,
    sorcery,

    ENMITIES,
    STRIFE,
    JEALOUSY,
    OUTBURSTS OF ANGER,
    FACTIONS,
    DIVISIONS,
    SECTS,
    ENVYINGS,

    bouts of drunkeness,
    carousings,
    and things like these,

    of which I have said before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21)


    We all know that racism is a fertile breading ground for such sinful works as "strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, factions, divisions, sects.". Do you deny this?

    The Apostle Paul says that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. They may be saved. They may be forgiven. They may be redeemed. But they will not participate in God's government in a co-sharing way. They will be excluded from the kingdom of God.

    He warned them before. He is again warning them.

    To walk by the Spirit is then to also be freed from these lusts and works of the flesh. And that is to be made free from the racism which tears apart the Body of Christ.

    If you wish to dignify these works of the flesh which accompany racism then you must not care about inheriting the kingdom of God. If you look to the Spirit of Christ to free you from such works of the flesh then you are in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles and therefore inclined to the will of God.

    You are making a non issue an issue. You show that you are more concerned with politics than Christ. You use Christ for you political agenda


    No, racial tension is not a non-issue. When it comes to the oneness of the local church, the first local church, the church in Jerusalem early in its existence faced a problem of strife between the Hebrewists and the Hellenistic widows.

    " And in these days, as the disciples were multiplying in number, a murmuring of the Hellenists against the Hebrew occurred, because their widows were being overlooked in the daily dispensing. (Acts 6:1)


    To this problem of ethnic tension causing dispruption in the otherwise oneness of the church (Acts 4:32) was addressed in a serious way by the twelve apostles.

    Their remedy was to appoint men full of the Holy Spirit to oversee the situation with wisdom and deal with the strife. They did not seek humanists. They did not seek plotical liberals or political conservatives to see to the problem. They sought relatively more spiritually mature brothers who were filled with the Holy Spirit.

    " But brothers, look for seven well-attested men from among you, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint over this need." (v.3)


    These became the first deacons. And one of them was Stephen the first martyr which testifies of his utter consecration to Jesus Christ.

    For you to trivialize the need to meet the problem of racism with men full of the Holy Spirit and with divine wisdom is therefore to play into the hands of the enemy.

    Like the early apostles we should, locality by locality, look for believers full of the Spirit of Christ, who walk by the Spirit of Christ and live in by the divine wisdom to help the weaker saints out of racial tensions.

    The Lord will one day say "Well done good and faithful servant."
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    22 Nov '16 18:13
    Originally posted by sonship
    In the church the problem of racism can be swallowed up and solved by the Trinity of God. But the saved must be saturated with and permeated with the life of the Triune God for a solution to the divisions of racism.

    If Christians wish to be saved from racism they must be filled with the Triune God. The oneness of the Trinity will swallow up the divisions ...[text shortened]... utter harmonious oneness.
    Such a oneness must be infused into mankind to save us from racism.
    More of your strange beliefs. Almost comical this time.
  12. Joined
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    22 Nov '16 19:342 edits
    Originally posted by sonship
    The humanism is talking about racism.


    Racism is a problem which also effects God accomlishing the buiding up of the [b]"one new man"
    . Do you deny this ?

    It makes little sense to say that Humanist talk of Racism so for Christians to talk of Racism makes them Humanists.

    The works of the flesh enumerated by Paul are sins which ...[text shortened]... racial tensions.

    The Lord will one day say "Well done good and faithful servant." [/b]
    One new man?

    Yes I deny it. I do not think any point of view about racism is Christian. What you do with it is quite different.

    Good luck with the good and faithful servant thing.
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    22 Nov '16 21:31
    Originally posted by Sonship
    I don't think the word "racism" is ever mentioned in the Bible.
    Err...nor is the word "trinity"

    πŸ˜‰
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    22 Nov '16 21:44
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Err...nor is the word "trinity"

    πŸ˜‰
    Jesus being with God the father and is also God is in the Bible. See John 1:1

    Not sure where the Holy Spirit is said to be God.
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    23 Nov '16 02:10
    Originally posted by sonship
    In the church the problem of racism can be swallowed up and solved by the Trinity of God. But the saved must be saturated with and permeated with the life of the Triune God for a solution to the divisions of racism.

    If Christians wish to be saved from racism they must be filled with the Triune God. The oneness of the Trinity will swallow up the divisions ...[text shortened]... utter harmonious oneness.
    Such a oneness must be infused into mankind to save us from racism.
    Since there is no trinity (Psalm 83:18 May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You..... alone..... are the Most High over all the earth.), we can't expect that to conquer racism.
    But, the One True God will:
    (Revelation 7:9, 10) After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10β€―And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.”
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