1. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    21 Mar '15 18:501 edit
    Three Rhetorical Answers

    Yes, these rhetorical answers represent an intended companion thread to "Three Rhetorical Questions":Thread 163476
    1) "Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved." (Acts 15:31a); 2) Yes, becoming "saved" means that in a moment of time you accepted the grace [free] gift made possible by Jesus Christ's substitutionary spiritual death [total separation from God the Father for the final three hours] on your behalf and mine at His Crucifixion on Golgotha Hill which propitiated [satisfied] the Justice of God the Father and will share His happiness for eternity; 3) Yes, you have the freedom to reject this singularly most important gift you've ever been or ever will be offered during your few decades in time on planet earth. The choice is yours. No need to reply. Instead please ponder your decision. Thanks for reading this original post. -Bob
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    23 Mar '15 02:15
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]Three Rhetorical Answers

    Yes, these rhetorical answers represent an intended companion thread to "Three Rhetorical Questions":Thread 163476
    1) "Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved." (Acts 15:31a); 2) Yes, becoming "saved" means that in a moment of time you accepted the grace [free] gift ...[text shortened]... o reply. Instead please ponder your decision. Thanks for reading this original post. -Bob[/b]
    True, we must believe in Christ Jesus. It is our only salvation.
    You realize no doubt that the free gift of life does not apply until after the 1000 yr. reign of Christ.
    It does not apply now because obviously we still die.
  3. SubscriberFMF
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    23 Mar '15 02:30
    "Rhetorical Answers" sounds like a kind of woolly synonym of "ideology" and we know idealogues from their self-anointed assertions of 'absolute truth', their contempt for properly considered reflection, their fear of debate, and their inability to deal with dissent and disagreement.
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    23 Mar '15 02:391 edit
    Originally posted by roigam
    True, we must believe in Christ Jesus. It is our only salvation.
    You realize no doubt that the free gift of life does not apply until after the 1000 yr. reign of Christ.
    It does not apply now because obviously we still die.
    If this were the case entirely, then the Apostle John would not have written to his audience of Christians that they HAVE at the present time eternal life.

    "He who HAS the Son HAS the life; he who does not HAVE the Son of God does not HAVE the life.

    I have written these things to you that you may know that you HAVE eternal life, to you who believe into the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:12,13) [my emphasis]


    You should get out of that Watchtower thing.
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    23 Mar '15 05:27
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Three Rhetorical Answers
    Ouch. Someone didn't learn anything from his own rhetorical questions. Oh well.
  6. Standard membersonship
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    23 Mar '15 14:42
    Originally posted by roigam
    True, we must believe in Christ Jesus. It is our only salvation.
    You realize no doubt that the free gift of life does not apply until after the 1000 yr. reign of Christ.
    It does not apply now because obviously we still die.
    True, we must believe in Christ Jesus. It is our only salvation.


    We must allow Jesus Himself in His resurrected state as life giving Spirit to come into the innermost part of our being. Then our human spirit and the Holy Spirit become one united spirit mingled together.

    "He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17)

    Part of our being becomes God.
    God clothes Himself with you in the most initial stage.

    If "He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" that means that the saved person's spirit IS Jesus Christ the Lord. An "organic" blending and life union has occurred.

    You should not think that to believe in Christ is just to receive something like a ticket which reads "Admit One". No, to believe in Christ is to invite Him as the available life giving Holy Spirit to come into your heart to be "one spirit" with you.

    There is nothing more subjective and more intimate and more [i]real[/b].

    The eternal life then is in Christ and IS Christ Himself -

    "He who has the Son has the life, he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." (1 John 5:12)

    Because Paul had Christ living within him he could pioneer the way into this life and help us to realize for us to live is Christ.

    "For to me to live is Christ and to die is gain." (Phil. 1:21) Jesus Christ is living in those who receive Him. And we must learn to live in union with this Person who has come to indwell us.

    You must realize that salvation is not just like an objective ticket reading "Admit One" which is APART of Jesus Himself. The life giving Spirit that Christ became in resurrection IS the life of God which becomes our life.

    Read that the alienated sinners are not only alienated from the knowledge about God. No, they are alienated "from the life of God" (Eph. 4:18).

    The very life of God since the incarnation, living, death and resurrection of Christ can blend and mingle with out life so that for us to live IS Christ. And Christ becomes our life.

    "For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ out life is manifested, then you also will be manifested with Him in glory." (Colossians 3:3,4)

    Did you ask the Lord Jesus Christ to come into you to be life to you?
    That is why He came and died and rose.

    "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
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    23 Mar '15 15:231 edit
    It seems like the three rhetorical questions have more than three rhetorical answers. Edit: Do the differences really matter?
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    23 Mar '15 17:341 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    If this were the case entirely, then the Apostle John would not have written to his audience of Christians that they HAVE at the present time eternal life.

    [b]"He who HAS the Son HAS the life; he who does not HAVE the Son of God does not HAVE the life.

    I have written these things to you that you may know that you HAVE eternal life, to you who believ ...[text shortened]... n of God." (1 John 5:12,13) [my emphasis]


    You should get out of that Watchtower thing.[/b]
    Perhaps those Scriptures have been misunderstood by you and whoever taught you those ideas.

    Jesus said, (Matthew 24:13) But the one who has endured to the end will be saved.

    And the Apostle Paul said, (Philippians 3:12-14) Not that I have already received it or am already made perfect, but I am pressing on to see if I may also lay hold on that for which Christ Jesus selected me. 13 Brothers, I do not yet consider myself as having taken hold of it; but one thing is certain: Forgetting the things behind and stretching forward to the things ahead, 14 I am pressing on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God by means of Christ Jesus.
    So, Paul did not view it an a done deal. It requires a faithful course to the end of one's life and then waiting for the resurrection back to life.

    Even then everlasting life is not granted until the 1000 yrs. have ended:
    (Revelation 20:5) (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
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    25 Mar '15 19:12
    Originally posted by roigam
    Perhaps those Scriptures have been misunderstood by you and whoever taught you those ideas.

    Jesus said, (Matthew 24:13) But the one who has endured to the end will be saved.

    And the Apostle Paul said, (Philippians 3:12-14) Not that I have already received it or am already made perfect, but I am pressing on to see if I may also lay hold on that for which ...[text shortened]... the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
    I hope no reply means you are reconsidering what you have been taught in error. (Not yours necessarily)
    Time for the truth?
    See JW.org.
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    26 Mar '15 13:06
    Originally posted by roigam
    I hope no reply means you are reconsidering what you have been taught in error. (Not yours necessarily)
    Time for the truth?
    See JW.org.
    I think it's pretty rich you hassling another poster about "not replying".
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    26 Mar '15 17:43
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I think it's pretty rich you hassling another poster about "not replying".
    If you would really like to learn something about JW's go to JW.org as you seem to know nothing at all about us.

    Perhaps you have second or third or fourth hand information which is very unreliable. Go to the source for the truth.
  12. Standard membersonship
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    27 Mar '15 19:582 edits
    Originally posted by roigam
    Perhaps those Scriptures have been misunderstood by you and whoever taught you those ideas.

    Jesus said, (Matthew 24:13) But the one who has endured to the end will be saved.

    And the Apostle Paul said, (Philippians 3:12-14) Not that I have already received it or am already made perfect, but I am pressing on to see if I may also lay hold on that for which ...[text shortened]... the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
    Jesus said, (Matthew 24:13) But the one who has endured to the end will be saved.


    The same phrase is used in 10:22 -

    "And you will be hated by all because of My name, But he who has endured to the end, this one shall be saved."

    To be saved here may mean to be saved from those who hate the Christians. They will be saved into the age of the manifestation of the kingdom of the heavens. They will be transferred alive right from one age into the next age.

    This differs from the eternal salvation mentioned in Ephesians 2:8 -

    "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; Not of works that no one should boast."

    Matthew 10:22 and 24:13 cannot be used to nullify eternal salvation through grace by faith, to establish a doctrine of "salvation by endurance."

    When Paul says "not of works" he includes the work of enduring.
    And when Paul says that no one may boast, he includes the potential boasting of having "stuck it out" and endured.


    And the Apostle Paul said, (Philippians 3:12-14) Not that I have already received it or am already made perfect, but I am pressing on to see if I may also lay hold on that for which Christ Jesus selected me. 13 Brothers, I do not yet consider myself as having taken hold of it; but one thing is certain: Forgetting the things behind and stretching forward to the things ahead, 14 I am pressing on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God by means of Christ Jesus.
    So, Paul did not view it an a done deal. It requires a faithful course to the end of one's life and then waiting for the resurrection back to life.


    Paul's concern there is the GAIN Christ. This is NOT a matter of obtaining Jesus Christ initially for eternal redemption. It is a matter of Paul wanting to be more transformed into His image by GAINING more of Christ in his personality.

    "But what things were gains to me, these I have counted as loss on account of Christ ... I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as refuse that I may gain Christ."

    Sure, Yes indeed. Every believer who has been eternally redeemed should seek to gain Christ more and more. Rather than just get their initial forgiveness and regeneration, they should press on to gain Christ in transformation and deeper sanctification.

    So, Paul did not view it an a done deal. It requires a faithful course to the end of one's life and then waiting for the resurrection back to life.



    He sought the "out-resurrection". That mean a higher quality resurrection.

    In First Corinthians 15 he spoke of the different degrees of glory in resurrection (1 Cor. 15:40-42). Paul's ambition here is not to achieve any resurrection but to receive an outstanding resurrection.
  13. SubscriberFMF
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    28 Mar '15 01:19
    Originally posted by roigam
    If you would really like to learn something about JW's go to JW.org as you seem to know nothing at all about us.

    Perhaps you have second or third or fourth hand information which is very unreliable. Go to the source for the truth.
    galveston75 and robbie carrobie are JWs and have, between them, posted tens of thousands of times on this forum, and many of these posts contained JW perspectives, and many of them contained material from JW sources. JW beliefs have been laid out on this forum in painstaking detail by JWs on thousands and thousands of occasions. If you are suggesting that this information might be "unreliable" or that one might still "know nothing" despite their testimony here, then that is rather interesting.
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    29 Mar '15 20:021 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    galveston75 and robbie carrobie are JWs and have, between them, posted tens of thousands of times on this forum, and many of these posts contained JW perspectives, and many of them contained material from JW sources. JW beliefs have been laid out on this forum in painstaking detail by JWs on thousands and thousands of occasions. If you are suggesting that this i ...[text shortened]... at one might still "know nothing" despite their testimony here, then that is rather interesting.
    It's obvious that you have not taken those reliable posts to mind and heart or you would not be as critical of JW's.
    I'm not saying we don't make mistakes. We are men just like you.
    Again I say, "Go to the source!" JW.org
    Anything else is secondhand information, including us.
    Find out for yourself!
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    30 Mar '15 04:131 edit
    Originally posted by roigam
    It's obvious that you have not taken those reliable posts to mind and heart or you would not be as critical of JW's.
    I'm not saying we don't make mistakes. We are men just like you.
    Again I say, "Go to the source!" JW.org
    Anything else is secondhand information, including us.
    Find out for yourself!
    I am not saying that other so-called Christian groups are correctly in line with the teachings of Christ, but I am pretty sure that you three are the only ones on this Forum that don't know that the Watchtower Society is a cultic organization.

    http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/fear-cult-mind-control.php
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