1. Windsor, Ontario
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    06 Jul '12 04:39
    Originally posted by whodey
    In James it says that the demons believe in God as well, but it does not save them.

    Looking at scripture, we see similar examples such as the Israelites seeing God split the Red Sea and give them manna to eat from heaven every day, but then decide to worship a golden calf instead.

    Clearly proving God's existence is fruitless when placing your faith in God is really the goal.
    there is no faith involved in the story of cain and able. it's about giving some of your meat to biblegod. not your vegetables, but your meat. biblegod loves the smell of burning meat. not so much the smell of burning vegetables.
  2. SubscriberSuzianne
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    06 Jul '12 22:201 edit
    Originally posted by VoidSpirit
    there is no faith involved in the story of cain and able. it's about giving some of your meat to biblegod. not your vegetables, but your meat. biblegod loves the smell of burning meat. not so much the smell of burning vegetables.
    If Cain had gone humbly to Abel and bartered with him for a calf to offer I'm sure he would have received the calf. But he could not be humble and put his faith in God. No, he had to get all butthurt and lash out at Abel in jealousy for God's supposed shunning of him and preferring Abel when that clearly wasn't the case. He had to put himself first, instead of God. He chose... poorly.

    The point is, though, that it was Cain's choice.
  3. SubscriberSuzianne
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    06 Jul '12 22:32
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Believed in God with his mouth.. he did not obey God, just like many Christians claim they believe in Christ but they do not obey Christ.

    1 John 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother..

    To believe is to act.
    Or, apparently, to believe is not to act.

    A shocking number of Christians here fail to understand they need to obey ALL of Christ's commandments, not just the ones they feel like following. This includes showing love for your Christian brothers. I notice most here seem to conveniently ignore this one a lot. And I mean a LOT.

    It's one thing to claim. It's quite another to actually DO what you claim.
  4. SubscriberSuzianne
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    06 Jul '12 22:36
    Originally posted by whodey
    In James it says that the demons believe in God as well, but it does not save them.

    Looking at scripture, we see similar examples such as the Israelites seeing God split the Red Sea and give them manna to eat from heaven every day, but then decide to worship a golden calf instead.

    Clearly proving God's existence is fruitless when placing your faith in God is really the goal.
    I would change that last bit to: "Clearly, trying to prove God's existence is fruitless when placing your faith in God is really the goal."

    But yeah, I think you "get" it. Congrats. 🙂
  5. Subscriberjosephw
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    06 Jul '12 22:51
    Originally posted by VoidSpirit
    that injustice of god has been examined elsewhere.

    my objection is about your two categories. according to the story, cain obviously knew god and talked with god in person. so all men do not fall into one of those two categories. there is no man alive who has talked with god or knows god the way cain is said to have known him.
    God is talking to you as well Voidy. But just as Cain failed to listen to God, and was subsequently rejected, so will you be rejected if you fail to heed His Word and believe not.

    God has no respect for faithlessness. Failure to believe God is faithlessness.

    That is "the way of Cain".
  6. Subscriberjosephw
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    06 Jul '12 23:00
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    It's the same old story since the beginning.

    As a child everybody reads the fairy tale and imagines themselves as the good guy, and everyone they dislike as the bad guy.

    Its only when we grow up that some of us start to realize that the 'bad guy' is usually just another guy with a different point of view and that he probably sees you as the 'bad guy'. Some people never see this and live their whole lives in an 'us vs them'
    mentality.
    Sorry t head, but you've made more out of what I said than what I actually said.

    No one is a "good guy". If anyone was "good" enough, then Jesus wouldn't have needed to die for them.

    It's not a question of whether or not Abel was a better man than Cain. The issue revolves around faith in God and what He says.

    One can either act upon the Word of God, or one can go "the way of Cain".
  7. Windsor, Ontario
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    07 Jul '12 03:28
    Originally posted by josephw
    God is talking to you as well Voidy.
    yes, and he shared the secret of the universe with me. that's why i have no worries.


    But just as Cain failed to listen to God, and was subsequently rejected, so will you be rejected if you fail to heed His Word and believe not.


    he didn't tell me anything about this. you must be talking about biblegod. biblegod is imaginary.


    God has no respect for faithlessness. Failure to believe God is faithlessness.


    the jealous mentally unstable god of the bible has no respect for faithlessness. god doesn't care about your faith.

    That is "the way of Cain".


    no, that's not the way of cain. i'll tell you what the meaning of that story is. in the next post.
  8. Windsor, Ontario
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    07 Jul '12 03:38
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    If Cain had gone humbly to Abel and bartered with him for a calf to offer I'm sure he would have received the calf. But he could not be humble and put his faith in God. No, he had to get all butthurt and lash out at Abel in jealousy for God's supposed shunning of him and preferring Abel when that clearly wasn't the case. He had to put himself first, instead of God. He chose... [b]poorly.

    The point is, though, that it was Cain's choice.[/b]
    no, you haven't understood the story of cain and abel.

    the early hebrews were nomadic herders, and their main competition came from agricultural city-states that dotted the region.

    they constantly got into conflicts with the farmers as their herds would move in on prime farmland and through overgrazing, turn it into desert, before moving to the next area to pillage.

    their early god was a herder's god. a god who liked meat and accepted only animal sacrifice (and maintained this trait for a long time). he did not accept produce. the produce belonged to other gods, namely biblegod's chief rival, baal.

    the early hebrews are the archytypical abel and the agricultural city-states of canaan and others were the archetypical cain. the rejection of cain's sacrifice represents the special selection of the hebrews as biblegod's chosen people. and the slaying of abel by cain represents the expulsion of the hebrews from the lands controlled by the city states.

    the hebrews of course would later take revenge on the farmers by murdering them all and raping their virgin daughters, but that's a story covered extensively elsewhere.
  9. Cape Town
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    07 Jul '12 07:17
    Originally posted by josephw
    Sorry t head, but you've made more out of what I said than what I actually said.
    I don't think I got it wrong though. You wish to separate everyone into two groups for easy classification, the 'good guys' and the 'bad guys' the way its done in cowboy movies, and you you see yourself wearing one of the white hats.
    Other people think that you have it all wrong and that you are one of the black hats.
  10. Subscriberjosephw
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    08 Jul '12 00:14
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I don't think I got it wrong though. You wish to separate everyone into two groups for easy classification, the 'good guys' and the 'bad guys' the way its done in cowboy movies, and you you see yourself wearing one of the white hats.
    Other people think that you have it all wrong and that you are one of the black hats.
    For someone who seems to pride themselves at being "scientific" and being able to understand reality, you sure have missed the mark this time.

    I am simply pointing out what the Bible teaches. If you want to disagree with me about what the Bible says, then provide your text proofs and we can move on from there.

    But please refrain from the hypocrisy by labeling me. You've discouraged me a little, old friend. I always considered you one of the more objective posters in this forum. Perhaps you might ask yourself whether or not the topic may have struck a nerve.

    In fact, there is a good deal more to this idea of "the way of Cain" than meets the eye. Some of it you might find quite interesting.

    If only we can get over the hump of preconceptions.
  11. Subscriberjosephw
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    08 Jul '12 00:21
    Originally posted by VoidSpirit
    yes, and he shared the secret of the universe with me. that's why i have no worries.


    But just as Cain failed to listen to God, and was subsequently rejected, so will you be rejected if you fail to heed His Word and believe not.


    he didn't tell me anything about this. you must be talking about biblegod. biblegod is imaginary.
    ...[text shortened]... not the way of cain. i'll tell you what the meaning of that story is. in the next post.
    "yes, and he shared the secret of the universe with me."

    So, Voidy, if that's not just sarcasm, why don't you tell how this god of yours gave you the secret. How did he do it, and what evidence can you provide to verify what you say is true?
  12. Windsor, Ontario
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    08 Jul '12 01:00
    Originally posted by josephw
    [b]"yes, and he shared the secret of the universe with me."

    So, Voidy, if that's not just sarcasm, why don't you tell how this god of yours gave you the secret. How did he do it, and what evidence can you provide to verify what you say is true?[/b]
    i have no need to verify it or provide you any evidence because his message was for me, not for you.
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