1. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    10 Nov '05 00:14
    In Stephen King's The Stand, Good is personified in the character of Mother Abigail. As the sides are forming in the wordly battle of Good versus Evil, one of her followers, Nick, tells her that he doesn't believe in God. She responds, "God bless you, Nick, but it don't matter. He believes in you."

    Is she right?
  2. Standard memberColetti
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    10 Nov '05 00:21
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    In Stephen King's The Stand, Good is personified in the character of Mother Abigail. As the sides are forming in the wordly battle of Good versus Evil, one of her followers, Nick, tells her that he doesn't believe in God. She responds, "God bless you, Nick, but it don't matter. He believes in you."

    Is she right?
    hmmmm ...

    What exactly is it that does not matter?
  3. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    10 Nov '05 00:23
    Originally posted by Coletti
    hmmmm ...

    What exactly is it that does not matter?
    I suppose she's telling Nick that he can still be successful in making a stand against Evil. God will be with him if he is for Good, even if he doesn't believe in God. Being good doesn't entail belief in God, but perhaps it does entail God's belief in you.
  4. Standard memberColetti
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    10 Nov '05 00:33
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    I suppose she's telling Nick that he can still be successful in making a stand against Evil. God will be with him if he is for Good, even if he doesn't believe in God. Being good doesn't entail belief in God, but perhaps it does entail God's belief in you.
    I'd agree that God uses all things for his ultimate glory, even reprobates like Nick. But I don't know exactly what "being" good means. Ain't no-one good. All are sinners.

    If believing in Nick you mean God has confidence in Nick's goodness, I'd say King's got it wrong. If believing in Nick means God knows Nick inside and out - this is true. God only knows all of us in-side and out. Only God knows a man's heart - not even a man knows himself like God does knows him.
  5. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    10 Nov '05 00:38
    Originally posted by Coletti
    I'd agree that God uses all things for his ultimate glory, even reprobates like Nick.
    Is a lack of belief in God sufficient to make one a reprobate, or are you familiar with his character and find that other characteristics of him give him this status?
  6. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    10 Nov '05 00:48
    Originally posted by Coletti
    Ain't no-one good. All are sinners.
    What a grim outlook on life, to think that goodness requires perfection.
  7. Standard memberColetti
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    10 Nov '05 00:55
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Is a lack of belief in God sufficient to make one a reprobate, or are you familiar with his character and find that other characteristics of him give him this status?
    A reprobate is someone who is dammed - i.e. his lack of belief points towards his standing with God. It may be God's will to convert him at some point, but that is not Nicks situation at this point.

    I don't know Nicks character - just his words - that he does not believe in God. Everyone is a sinner - so Nick is in the same boat as everyone else - in danger of hell, and in need of God for salvation. That's how it works according to the Christian world-view.

    I suppose in King's world-view - all that is needed is a to try to do good deeds and everything will come up roses. In King's world, man is autonomous, and his afterlife is a function of his doing more good than bad. God looks down and say's Nick's heart is good, so Nick has determined his own destiny. God believes in Nick - Nick is independent of God.
  8. Standard memberColetti
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    10 Nov '05 00:56
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    What a grim outlook on life, to think that goodness requires perfection.
    Thank God for Jesus - his perfection saves sinners. That's my view in a nutshell.
  9. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    10 Nov '05 01:061 edit
    Originally posted by Coletti
    Thank God for Jesus - his perfection saves sinners. That's my view in a nutshell.
    Then the shell is sweeter than the nut, for once we examine your beliefs closer we find that Jesus didn't die to save all sinners but only those sinners in whose heart God places faith, for you hold that one cannot choose to believe, but rather that one is at God's mercy to have it be part of his plan to have one believe. That is, you hold that one cannot believe if it is not God's will - God picks and chooses who receives Jesus' perfection. What do you call this again - Calvinism?
  10. Standard memberColetti
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    10 Nov '05 02:072 edits
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Then the shell is sweeter than the nut, for once we examine your beliefs closer we find that Jesus didn't die to save all sinners but only those sinners in whose heart God places faith, for you hold that one cannot choose to believe, but rather that one is at God's mercy to have it be part of his plan to have one believe. That is, you hold ...[text shortened]... God picks and chooses who receives Jesus' perfection. What do you call this again - Calvinism?
    That's the logical consequence of believing God is omnipotent and omniscient - it makes one totally dependent on God. There is no room for pride - only gratitude. God's grace is totally undeserved and unearned. The only alternative is a God who is less than the God of the Bible. My Armenian brothers may disagree on that detail of predestination - but as long as we agree that we are saved by Jesus' perfection - his sinless life and perfect sacrifice - then we have fellowship. The result is we live a life for God, striving to love our neighbors only because Jesus first loved us.
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