1. Account suspended
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    15 Jun '06 00:27
    too you?
  2. Joined
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    15 Jun '06 01:47
    Originally posted by trevor33
    too you?
    Faith in what? Also, how do you define faith?
  3. Account suspended
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    15 Jun '06 01:59
    Originally posted by whodey
    Faith in what? Also, how do you define faith?
    that's part of what i'm asking.
  4. Standard memberDavid C
    Flamenco Sketches
    Spain, in spirit
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    15 Jun '06 02:13
    Originally posted by trevor33
    that's part of what i'm asking.
    Faith would be the acceptance of the truth value of X without reasonable evidence. I'm sure there's a better definition out there somewhere. Maybe more romantic, too.
  5. Joined
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    15 Jun '06 02:26
    Originally posted by trevor33
    too you?
    From a religious point of view, faith has been defined as the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. In short, without faith, you have no hope. Without hope, there is no purpose to life.
  6. Donationkirksey957
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    15 Jun '06 02:28
    Faith is living with a whole lot of doubt, a whole lot of pain and uncertainty and trying to be a decent human being in the face of it all.
  7. Standard memberPhlabibit
    Mystic Meg
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    15 Jun '06 02:32
    Originally posted by David C
    Faith would be the acceptance of the truth value of X without reasonable evidence. I'm sure there's a better definition out there somewhere. Maybe more romantic, too.
    That's rather interesting. I consider 'faith' as in something Will get done or work, not really as 'truth'. I might believe in God, and have Faith that he can pull me through anything.

    That's how I consider the word... wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.

    P-
  8. Joined
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    15 Jun '06 02:441 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    From a religious point of view, faith has been defined as the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. In short, without faith, you have no hope. Without hope, there is no purpose to life.
    I think it also to point out that faith has a relational aspect to it. When you have faith in something or someone, you are placing value in them or it based on personal experience from previous dealings. Your perceived value that you place in them can produce a perceived value that you desire.
  9. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    15 Jun '06 14:33
    Originally posted by trevor33
    too you?
    Faith means guessing at which form of "to, too, two" to use in a sentence, but acting with complete certainty that you got it right. Of course you didn't.

    A skeptic would use a dictionary (or some reference tool other than the bible) and get it right. By using research instead of divine revelation, the skeptic would know your sentence should have read, "to you?"
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    15 Jun '06 14:47
    Originally posted by whodey
    From a religious point of view, faith has been defined as the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. In short, without faith, you have no hope. Without hope, there is no purpose to life.
    Hope and faith are not inclusive notions at all. You can hope for something in the same way as you can look forward to it, it is not a matter of evidence or the lack of it. Neither is hope relevant to the nature of life. Life without hope seems to me to be a very reasonable prospect, it will be uniform in purpose.
  11. Joined
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    15 Jun '06 16:524 edits
    Originally posted by Starrman
    Hope and faith are not inclusive notions at all. You can hope for something in the same way as you can look forward to it, it is not a matter of evidence or the lack of it. Neither is hope relevant to the nature of life. Life without hope seems to me to be a very reasonable prospect, it will be uniform in purpose.
    I would have to disagree. Hope and faith are inclusive notions. I am not placing any faith in the notion that the tooth fairy will come visit me and place money under my pillow at night. Therefore, I have no hope of it ever happening and can in no way look forward to it. Now when I was a child, I may have some evidence of the possiblity of the tooth fairy coming to visit me based on the evidence of some one I looked up to telling me that this was a possibility. At such a young age, I had next to no evidence to counter such a notion to be highly unlikely. I could then look forward to this happening even though I would not be 100% sure of it happening.

    I would also argue the notion that hope is not relevant to the nature of life. Granted, you may loose hope in life in which case you will surely begin to die "inside" and without fail effect your physiology to begin a concurrent demise as well. It is a medical fact that those who have a positive outlook on life tend to thrive better than those who do not. In fact, I have heard research suggesting that those who are "religious" tend to have longer life expectancies than those who are not and do not place their faith and hope in a higher power. Just look at this article on church attendance and longer life.

    http://www.eatingbythebook.com/health/health01.html

    You know what, I just had an revelation of sorts. It say in the Bible that whatever is not of faith is sin. Sin in turn then brings death. Perhaps this is why we die. It is because at some point we loose faith and hope on some level which triggors the death process physically. I will say again, if you begin to die on the inside, you begin to die on the outside. Walking by faith can extend your life physically, however. That same life giving faith can in turn extend your life spiritually forever.
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    15 Jun '06 17:27
    Originally posted by trevor33
    too you?
    What does wise old Yoda think?
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    15 Jun '06 17:55
    Originally posted by whodey
    I would have to disagree. Hope and faith are inclusive notions. I am not placing any faith in the notion that the tooth fairy will come visit me and place money under my pillow at night. Therefore, I have no hope of it ever happening and can in no way look forward to it. Now when I was a child, I may have some evidence of the possiblity of the tooth fairy ...[text shortened]... lly, however. That same life giving faith can in turn extend your life spiritually forever.
    What utter rubbish. You're using your interpretation of one word to cover a myriad of different specifics. 'I hope the post arrives before I go to work' and 'I have faith in the post arriving before I go to work' are not the same thing. One suggests the possibility, the other fully demands that it should happen.

    Losing hope is not akin to losing one's reason for living, surely you can see this? Or maybe you cannot, since you group these things together, I imagine that, were you to lose faith, you would lose your hope and your reason for living. It is a shame that something as fragile as the notion of faith is your safety rope. The rest of us live not for transient or etheral reasons, but for the very expereince of life.

    What did you do before you had faith? Did you cease to live?
  14. Felicific Forest
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    15 Jun '06 18:26
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Faith means guessing at which form of "to, too, two" to use in a sentence, but acting with complete certainty that you got it right. Of course you didn't.

    A skeptic would use a dictionary (or some reference tool other than the bible) and get it right. By using research instead of divine revelation, the skeptic would know your sentence should have read, "to you?"
    Rwingo: " ..... but acting with complete certainty that you got it right."


    ....... sure sounds like you Rwingo ... 😀
  15. Joined
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    15 Jun '06 18:53
    Originally posted by Starrman
    What utter rubbish. You're using your interpretation of one word to cover a myriad of different specifics. 'I hope the post arrives before I go to work' and 'I have faith in the post arriving before I go to work' are not the same thing. One suggests the possibility, the other fully demands that it should happen.

    Losing hope is not akin to losing one ...[text shortened]... ery expereince of life.

    What did you do before you had faith? Did you cease to live?
    When you say that you hope the post arrives before you go to work, you have some measure of faith that it possibly could come, no? You may not be 100% certain, but you have hope nonetheless. Do you place your faith in people? You must to a certain degree. This is a prerequisite for life. Who do you place faith in 100%. Do you not rather place a certain degree of faith in people that directly correlates to past interactions with them? Faith never demands that something happens, rather, it is a petition. You never demand from God nor people unless your are manipulating them in some way. Let me read a verse from Daniel 3:17 about three men who are on the verge of meeting their demise. "If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king. BUT IF NOT, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods...." Here we see faith in the ability of God to deliver them and faith in the act of not worshiping idols as instructed by God but at the same time the aknowledgement that God is sovereign and is not dictated to. This carries the knowledge that they may die in the furnace despite their faith which means that their faith is not 100% that God will save them from the furnace.

    As far as losing hope, I am not sure you understand what I mean. There is losing a certain degree of hope and then there is losing ALL hope. I think you are refering to losing a certain degree of hope and not all hope. If you lost all hope, you need not bother functioning on any level. It would be akin to being shut in a dark isolated room and being powerless to pursue anything or communitcate with anyone. It would be akin to being in hell.

    When I speak of faith and hope, I am not always speaking in terms of a higher power. Before I became saved, I did not have faith in God, however, I did have faith and hope in other things and other people. Some of this faith and hope was well placed but a majority was largely misplaced. For example, placing your faith in a rock on the street can fill the void of the absense of faith and you may have psychological and physiological benefits from this "positive thinking". However, your faith in the end is misplaced because that rock is powerless to effect change in the way that you are placing your faith in it. You may live longer with this positive thinking that our bodies were designed to live with, but in the end you will be disappointed once you realize the rock is powerless.
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