what happens if....

Originally posted by kirksey957
But are there not examples in the Bible of Jesus and God changing?

there are not. If you look at each time where God promises to wipe out His people and doesn't, it is because Israel gets it that they have to follow Him and change their ways. God can say "you didn't follow Me so you will die now" and then the people say "we repent" (which later on Jesus says to always forgive if they repent), and God would say "Ok".

But Israel kept sliding away from God. God never changed His mind. His people changed their position.

Originally posted by bbarr
If he acts in time he cannot be changeless.

Why can't He be? Again, to staple the limit of time to Him would be to remove His omnipotence. Besides, even if He acted in time, it would be His time, not our definition of time. "His thoughts are not our thoughts, and His ways are not our ways."

Originally posted by jonesyuno34
Why can't He be? Again, to staple the limit of time to Him would be to remove His omnipotence. Besides, even if He acted in time, it would be His time, not our definition of time. "His thoughts are not our thoughts, and His ways are not our ways."

Because acts are events, and events occur in time. There was a time before which God had incarnated himself as man, and a later time when God had incarnated himself as man. So, there was a time when God had the property of not being incarnated as man and a time at which God had the property of being incarnated as man. So, God has different properties at different times. So, God changes. If you want to make up different senses of common words, then fine. But I'm not interested in those claims; claims that employ alternate and ad hoc notions of common words.

Originally posted by bbarr
Because acts are events, and events occur in time. There was a time before which God had incarnated himself as man, and a later time when God had incarnated himself as man. So, there was a time when God had the property of not being incarnated as man and a time at which God had the property of being incarnated as man. So, God has different properties at dif ...[text shortened]... rested in those claims; claims that employ alternate and ad hoc notions of common words.

This is in the Bible is it?

Originally posted by jonesyuno34
This is in the Bible is it?

So, which part of the above argument do you take issue with?

I see you're in philosophy. I am first curious about your religious stance, if you have one.

impressive chess record, by the way

Originally posted by jonesyuno34
I see you're in philosophy. I am first curious about your religious stance, if you have one.

impressive chess record, by the way

I only have philosophical stances. Thanks, by the way.

Originally posted by josephw
God doesn't change, he just changes what he does!
I think I alluded to this once before in another thread, but it didn't go far.

This opens up a whole can of worms in my opinion. Let's say that I am a terrible sinner (murder, adulterer, liar, and fat to boot). I have a "Damascus Road" experience and come to be a person of tremendous faith. I have changed by behavior and actions. Are you saying I haven't really changed?

What's so bad with the idea of God "changing?" If anything, it would tend to indicate that there is a relationship with his creation that is taken into consideration.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
How do you know this???

You don't. You're just another phony apologist.

I just believe in it. Nothing wrong with it.

Edit: jou ma is 'n phony

Originally posted by Nicksten
I just believe in it. Nothing wrong with it.

Edit: jou ma is 'n phony

And some believe that 9/11 was staged, and some believe that man never walked on the moon, and some believe that the earth is flat, and goes through space on the back of a giant turtle.

You know what "beliefs" are worth? Not too much - facts is where it's at!

Originally posted by scottishinnz
And some believe that 9/11 was staged, and some believe that man never walked on the moon, and some believe that the earth is flat, and goes through space on the back of a giant turtle.

You know what "beliefs" are worth? Not too much - facts is where it's at!

Like I said, that all was well thought-out by God when He created earth and man. Any designer and or developer etc also go through the same thing to where you have to plan. Planning is everything. What is the use of creating anything if you're not gonna do something with it?

Originally posted by Nicksten
Like I said, that all was well thought-out by God when He created earth and man. Any designer and or developer etc also go through the same thing to where you have to plan. Planning is everything. What is the use of creating anything if you're not gonna do something with it?

I ain't heard a whole lot of evidence there! Just another lot of woolly suppositions and opinions.

Originally posted by jonesyuno34
I see you're in philosophy. I am first curious about your religious stance, if you have one.

impressive chess record, by the way

Jonah 3:10 “When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil ways, God changed his mind about the calamity that he had said he would bring upon them; and he did not do it. 4:1 But this was very displeasing to Jonah, and he became angry.”

Yes the people of Nineveh “turned from their evil ways” according to the story. But that was not God’s message via Jonah. The promise was of their destruction—no ifs ands or buts. God’s “word” was communicated to the people of Nineveh; God then changed God’s mind, and Jonah, being God’s “mouthpiece,” was displeased.

And that is precisely the point of the whole story: it is an allegory for those who want to put God in a box—especially a box where they think they know who is saved and who is condemned, and what the rules are, often based on some idolatrous notion of “God’s word.”
__________________________

Also, if “incarnation” is taken as a unique, historical “once upon a time” event, then bbarr is quite correct. On the other hand, if Jesus is taken as a “sacramental” symbol and exemplar of the logos tou theou as it manifests in/as humanity...

Originally posted by scottishinnz
I ain't heard a whole lot of evidence there! Just another lot of woolly suppositions and opinions.

1. I wasnt trying to prove anything...
2. and yes, I was only giving my opinions regarding the subject.

Its clear that your opinions differ from mine. End of story?

Originally posted by Nicksten
1. I wasnt trying to prove anything...
2. and yes, I was only giving my opinions regarding the subject.

Its clear that your opinions differ from mine. End of story?

Perhaps not stating things as facts when they are merely opinions would be wise in the future.