What if God was you

@medullah said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

I appreciate your position sir, and we can amicably agree to disagree, though i would draw your attention to the point that Dr Cann established common ancestry through the femail line. On this point I would concede that she wasn't claiming to have proven the existence of Eve of garden of Eden fame.

An impasse has been reached sir, on our respective evolutionary journeys.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
An impasse has been reached sir, on our respective evolutionary journeys.

A very fair positon, a draw, though I won't be offering you one of those when the pieces are palced on the board 😉

-Removed-

I neither dodge your point or question. Have you considered the possiblity that as great as you are, you might possibly not be communicating very well?

Spell out you questions and they will get answered if I can.

-Removed-

Sonship is back !

-Removed-

DG. Let me crystallise a couple of things which hopefully will make our dialogue going forward easier, as I still think you are making wrong assumptions about me, and that reflects in the way that you are posing quesions.

1) I'm not a Trinitarian, I'm a Unitarian.

2) I place very little importance on the born again stuff in relation to me personally. I'm not, born again as in the Sonships of the world would promote it. It doesn't apply to me. I'm not going to heaven. (Matt 5:5 Psalms 37:11) Born again isn't even in my thinking.

3) I don't use or like the word "grace" in a religious context. If I mean "good will" then I won't fanny around with grace stuff, I'll say "good will".

My understanding on Jesus is that he had a prehuman existence, but not as flesh and blood. He was of the spirit realm (God's Son, NOT God the Son). So for me the body took form for the first time in Mary's womb. So yes Jeusus existed before Abraham.

Now the scripture that you have highlighted is a really good one (Deut 6 4-15)

The Trinitarians try and bend it to "One in Purpose", but what God (the great YHWH of Israel ) is telling them is that he is most definitely singular. So why is that?

When that verse was spoken, God was prepping the Israelites to take posession of the promised land, and was distinguishing himself from what they were about to encounter. In that land were peoples already inhabiting it who worshipped Gods who were combine pluralities (E.g Moloch/Baal). These people indulged in child sacrifice and whole load of stuff God condemned, which the Israelites got dragged into including sacrifricing their own children. I'll leave it there.

I hope that helps, but if it doesn't just rephrase your question, and i will do my best.

-Removed-

OK crossed posts.

Thank you.

1) I don't know, If you are committing gross sin then your conscience should give you a nudge. If you are going around murdering people or shagging the local barmaid you won't need to be told that you are doing wrong.

2) I believe so, by repenting. Peter denied Christ and was forgiven.

3) I don't think that you do so many good works to qualify. You make a change in the way you live and stick to it. I don't think it's like accruing brownie points. It's a continuous process.

4) yes. Jesus made the point that if somebody did you wrong and was genuinely sorry that you should forgive. The same is true of God unless you have sinned against the Holy spirit, and then you have a problem.

5) I think you make a fair point. If you have arisen to heaven you are incorruptable, and therefore saved. Nobody on the earth is home and dry (if you'll forgive the phrase) until after the millenium reign of Christ.

6) It would depend on what they did. I'm not judging (thankfully) and would imagine that mercy would be shown. The thing to keep in mind with this is that we are not perfect, and Christ who is doing the judging knows that. If you walk into a pub and forget to pay for your drink then technically its theft but in reality all you have done is made a mistake. If you muder somebody then we are in a different ball game, but there may be mitigating factors.

I find it a lot easier if you break it down like this, then I understand exactly what you are trying to address, thank you.

-Removed-

Sorry I missed this post first time around.

That's interresting, I've not heard that idea before.

Certainly the concept of hell was something that the Catholic church (and several others) have used to instill fear in people (threat of burning forever) which isn't what it is (the common grave).

So I would agree with you that it will be done away with (death will be removed so no need for graves?), only I think that the timescale would be after the millenial reign, as it looks as though there will be a final testing. So I'd but into the idea that Jesus metaphorically got the keys but they don't get used until after quarratine arrangement that we live in is resolved?

-Removed-

This is not in the bible. If it is please quote - What’s obvious to me is that the notion of salvation by God is … salvation. Period. That is what the church wants people to hear so that they will come. People do not want to hear the part about righteousness and doing good works.

Salvation by God is the Grace of God which is Jesus Christ who was sent to die for the sins of the world so that all men can be free of the curse of the sin of Adam. This is the Grace of God or Salvation of God. This is NOT ETERNAL LIFE. Eternal life is for those who keep the commandments.

I notice you refrain from using the term 'eternal life,' or 'inheritance' in the Kingdom of God. Pauls used that expression and he was clear that although born again Christian Saints were saved or justified, and had 'salvation', if they fail to live righteously there is no inheritance in the Kingdom of God for them.

So your doctrine if 50% correct. The part you left out which Paul and all the Apostles explained in detail is the critical part.

-Removed-

All people are saved. Some get eternal life. Some are cast out. Christ was clear, there is both reward and there is punishment which is death /annihilation by fire. It is not eternal torment.