My first thread - I wanted to get away from Christian based/biased topics and hopefully give everyone a chance to have a say. I hope that this isn't too broad or open?
So -
* Can we define either of these two states, what is the difference?
* Is being spiritual the automatic domain of those that are religious?
* Is one of these characteristics more desirable or honest than the other and why?
* You can have a religious hypocrite; can you have a spiritual one?
* Could an atheist be a more spiritual person than a religious one?
* Is Buddhism and example of how an agnostic person could be spiritual, or perhaps religious?
* Is politics a type of religion ?
* Are there any other consuming interests that could be classified as a religion (e.g. crazed sports fan) ?
* How important is it to be either, what are the benefits to anyone?
Finally can we contain our answers a bit so that it's easier for others to follow thought processes - we should not need 100 line responses to any of this 🙂
@medullah saidMy 2 Cents:
My first thread - I wanted to get away from Christian based/biased topics and hopefully give everyone a chance to have a say. I hope that this isn't too broad or open?
* Can we define either of these two states, what is the difference?
Simply put, religion is knowledge while spiritual is the application of that knowledge
* Is being spiritual the automatic domain of those that are religious?
A definite NO
* Is one of these characteristics more desirable or honest than the other and why?
Spiritual is where you want to be. Religion / Knowledge is nothing. Application is everything. The ultimate is Spiritual
* You can have a religious hypocrite; can you have a spiritual one?
No. James said : Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. (James 1:27 KJV). A Spiritual man practices this brotherly love and charity therefore cannot be a hypocrite
* Could an atheist be a more spiritual person than a religious one?
Definitely Yes.
* How important is it to be either, what are the benefits to anyone?
Religion has one purpose, otherwise it is a failure. It must change the person from being a hearer / talker to a doer. Religion just tells you what to do, whereas the spiritual man is actually doing it.
@medullah saidMy analysis of religiosity, in harness with my vocabulary bending, leads me to believe that 'being religious' is but one manifestation of human beings' spiritual nature and capacity. I think "spirituality" is about perceiving one's own personhood and those of others, purpose in life, morality, and the capacity to affect other human beings in abstract [and not only physical] ways. "Religion" ticks all these boxes.
* Can we define either of these two states, what is the difference?
@medullah saidI do not believe so. I think the spiritual characteristics and capacities of religious people cause them to end up subscribing to supernatural answers to questions related to the human condition. I think the same spiritual characteristics and capacities of non-religious people mean they do not end up subscribing to supernatural explanations.
* Is being spiritual the automatic domain of those that are religious?
@medullah saidOur perceptions of our spiritual dimensions are about as subjective as one can get. I don't know what role "honesty" plays in this. Are religious people living a lie, from my agnostic atheist point of view? No. If religious people behave in morally sound ways because of their fear of their God figures, is it "desirable"? Yes, I welcome it.
* Is one of these characteristics more desirable or honest than the other and why?
@medullah saidIn so far as our spiritual nature affects how we behave and treat one another and also affects whether we can live up to the standards we set for ourselves and expect from others, yes I think all [religious] spiritual persons and [non-religious] spiritual persons can be hypocrites.
* You can have a religious hypocrite; can you have a spiritual one?
@medullah saidYes. A religious person might choose to sit atop a 40 ft pole as a hermit and read the scriptures of his theistic tradition for his whole adult life. I think "spiritually" is virtually meaningless if it does not involve affecting or interacting with one's fellow human beings.
* Could an atheist be a more spiritual person than a religious one?
@medullah saidSpirituality is an attribute of human beings that enables them to navigate their individual identities through the vicissitudes of the human condition, interpret their own unique narratives, and tackle questions about who they are and what they are doing. Religious creeds offer off-the-shelf sets of answers, but this is not necessary for one to be spiritual. People can draw whatever benefit from all this that they choose to.
* How important is it to be either, what are the benefits to anyone?
@divegeester saidIf you're referring to me, I have not said that spirituality has nothing to do with spirits or souls. I have said that spirituality isn't ONLY to do with spirits or souls. I think belief in spirits or souls is one kind of outcome of our spiritual nature. i think the capacities that allow us to operate on a spiritual plane lead to some people believing in supernatural causality and for others it doesn't.
According to several atheists here spirituality has nothing to do with spirits or souls, so in short, the two things are not related.
26 Jun 21
@fmf saidI think that there is a lot of truth in that.
I do not believe so. I think the spiritual characteristics and capacities of religious people cause them to end up subscribing to supernatural answers to questions related to the human condition. I think the same spiritual characteristics and capacities of non-religious people mean they do not end up subscribing to supernatural explanations.
I sometimes wonder about things that people assign to being "miracles" when there is a rational explanation for an event that is not reliant on the super natural?
26 Jun 21
@fmf saidI was thinking more in terms of people that I have met that will subscribe to a religion without fully understanding it, because of social pressure say from family.
Our perceptions of our spiritual dimensions are about as subjective as one can get. I don't know what role "honesty" plays in this. Are religious people living a lie, from my agnostic atheist point of view? No. If religious people behave in morally sound ways because of their fear of their God figures, is it "desirable"? Yes, I welcome it.
People that I have met that I would describe as spiritual and not always religious or belonging to a faith, but they have an awareness about them, and a compassion towards others.
26 Jun 21
@fmf saidYes my question wasn't thought out so well. They are spiritual but I have never met one (I've only known three) that are concerned with god/evil supernatural, it seems to be more about new and harmony with their surrounds and other people?
I think Buddhism is certainly a spiritual prism and framework, but, personally I balk at the idea that it is a religion. I see religion as the worship of a supernatural being.
Do we have any Buddhists that could put me straight on that one?