What's unique about Christianity?

Originally posted by vistesd
What a small world! It's been some years since I saw that debate video, but I thought I still had it somewhere--of course, with a couple of moves in the last 10 years...

Indeed.

Originally posted by Halitose
Indeed.

Now that I re-discovered the name, I found this on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Deedat.

I do remember his debating style as being blunt, occasionally a bit caustic perhaps, but not inflammatory. I also seem to remember that he carried himself with a huge amount of dignity—maybe gravitas is the right word. Like I said, though, it’s been some years.

Originally posted by Tetsujin
I said "one religion", not theism.

Aside from that, why would someone reject something they haven't analysed or understood?


Edit: I mean that in general terms, and not to be directed at any one particular person, place, or thing.


To the other guy, sorry I can't remember your name as I type this 🙂, was it by any chance Dr. Zakir Naik?

I was reacting to this sentence from your post:

It saddens me when people reject all religions because of their conflict with one, and when they just don't make the effort or intention to look at other religions...

Which I interpreted to mean that even though I do not believe in a chritian god it does not follow that I should likewise disbelieve in a Muslim god unless I had first examined Islam in detail. I contend that it is unnecessary for me to know anything at all about Islam for me to disbelieve in their god. As I do not believe in any gods, it doesn't make any difference what form a particular god takes, whether it be a christian god, a Hindu god, or a Norse god, I do not believe in any of them. You could come up with any theistic religion you want, as long as they have a deity that generally conforms to the standard conception of being a"god", I will put no faith in it. It is not necessary for me to know anything about such a religion at all except that it is a theistic one.

Originally posted by vistesd
Now that I re-discovered the name, I found this on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Deedat.

I do remember his debating style as being blunt, occasionally a bit caustic perhaps, but not inflammatory. I also seem to remember that he carried himself with a huge amount of dignity—maybe gravitas is the right word. Like I said, though, it’s been some years.

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Debates/Deedat_McDowell.html

An interesting transcript of a debate that I believe happened in one of the football stadiums in Durban -- to a packed crowd.

Originally posted by Halitose
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Debates/Deedat_McDowell.html

An interesting transcript of a debate that I believe happened in one of the football stadiums in Durban -- to a packed crowd.

Thanks, Hal. I've printed it out, since I don't like to read lengthy things on the computer. I'll sit by the fire after a while and read it. 🙂

Originally posted by vistesd
Thanks, Hal. I've printed it out, since I don't like to read lengthy things on the computer. I'll sit by the fire after a while and read it. 🙂

You're welcome.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Your post appears to:
1. State your beliefs and understanding of Christianity and its key principles that differ from other religions.
2. Imply that Christianity is either better or more unique than other religions.
3. Imply that your faith is based on that uniqueness. (I may have missinterpreted this one)

To try and stick to the title of the thread ...[text shortened]... s of various religions and choose the best. Have you studied any other religions to any degree ?

Thank you. This permits me to clearly address your points.

1. Yes, that is my post.

2. I would not use the term "better". I much prefer "unique". This does not imply that other theological belief systems are not unique, simply that the points I make are what are unique about mine. Certainly, as a believer I think that mine is "better". I think that mine is the only correct answer. However, this is simply what I think/believe. I do not, nor would not, make this as a "claim". I do not consider it my place to tell another man what they should believe, rather I think it sufficient to state my beliefs and why/how they work for me. In the end it is the individuals decision to discern the truth. As I am of firm belief that my perception is the "correct" understanding, I am comfortable with it standing on its own. I do not see a need to put down other beliefs, as this does nothing to validate my position. In the end, the truth is the truth, no matter who believes it or not.

3. I would say this is partially correct. Correct in the sense that I accept this theology as the items which make it unique are the items I concludes I would require of any theology in order to accept it, long before I came to be a follower of this religion.

To the main question (which is also a summary of my position): Christianity addresses the following:

Man is fallible.

Man is uncapable of correcting himself through his own efforts.

God has provided divine intervention which any man may claim as compensation for his inequities.

Yes, I have studied a rather large number of religions. I have studied (to a greater or lesser degree) the major theologies of the world, as well as a good number of obscure belief systems. Quite frankly, I came to Christianity last as I held contempt for it due to the workings I observed in the organized churches. Also to be blunt, I still do hold contempt for much of what occurs in organized religion. Through my studies through the years though, I have found a common denominator. No matter the theology, it seems the more "organized" the religion, the more obscurity occurs. The same systemic problem I witnessed in the organization of Christian churches I also see with the Islamic, Jewish, etc.

Naturally, there are several notions of personal choice and discernment which led me down the path of a theist in the first place, but once on that road this is where my search led me.

I hope this has helped expound my position. If I can clarify anything further, or if there are any further questions, let me know.

Best Regards,

Omnislash

Originally posted by vistesd
Part of the problem that I had as I read your opening post was that I kept “hearing” a Muslim making the same kind of argument, but of course in support of the unique features of Islam vis-à-vis Christianity. Since, in a more generic way, lucifershammer’s thread “The Map and the Territory” was covering these kind of questions, I have simply bumped it, rathe ...[text shortened]... gion. And I am willing to be corrected in my understanding by people who follow that religion.

Formost, I do not intend to make an "arguement" as it were. I understand your point in phrasing it as such, but likewise I do not wish to be misunderstood. I do not intend to "argue" about anything. If someone were to show up and state that they thought me and my beliefs were complete rubbish for reason XYZ (or no reason at all), that is fine. I have no desire to proselytize my position. I simply state it as I hope it may be of value or interest to some one, and I do enjoy discussing it to a degree.

In regards to my phrasing with Islam, I simply state it as I have perceived it. As with my own religion, I try to ignore the organized faces of the theology and learn from the texts alone. Quite frankly, and bluntly, I see the Islamic perception of God as such. Indeed, I see this purported God as being rather disconnected and vengeful. I perceive and angry God who proverbially shrugs his shoulders and says "Well, you should have done better.". That is my honest perception, and I truly do not intend to offend anyone of that faith. I have met a fine number of people of the Islamic faith whome I consider to be good hearted and rational individuals who are a credit to that belief system. I am sure there are people of differing perceptions of my own who may view my own notion of God in a similar manner. That is fine and well, I have no quarrel with them for viewing it as such. Naturally, I would like to discuss my perception with them.....😀 In all seriousness, we are all pilgrims in a strange land, doing the best we can to discern the truth and meaning of our exitence. I am no better to say what is true than the next man, nor he any better than I. All I can say is what I believe, why I believe it, and how it has worked for me.

I was actually quite pleased about your statement of the Muslin and Christian theologans debating. I think your assesment is quite correct, and I would encourage your line of thought here. 🙂

Best Regards,

Omnislash

Originally posted by rwingett
I was reacting to this sentence from your post:

It saddens me when people reject all religions because of their conflict with one, and when they just don't make the effort or intention to look at other religions...

Which I interpreted to mean that even though I do not believe in a chritian god it does not follow that I should likewise disbelie ...[text shortened]... necessary for me to know anything about such a religion at all except that it is a theistic one.

It’s okay, you don’t have to believe in god, and I won’t/can’t force it upon anyone. But, I did not say that you couldn’t hold your views until you examine all religions. Instead, I meant that you should not reject one religion based upon experiences with another religion.

The two arguments are mutually exclusive. I don’t see how you drew the connection, but I’m glad we got that cleared. 🙂

To vistesd: I didn't hear about his death. Wasn't he also part of the IRF?

Originally posted by rwingett
Why would someone who rejects theism not be able to reject all theistic religions out of hand? If you don't believe in any gods, then it doesn't matter how different one religion's god is from another's, they're all equally untenable. But if you could present a completely naturalistic, non-theistic religion, then it might be worth considering.

Humanism.

Originally posted by Omnislash
... While this is good and well, and has lead to many a good discussion, I feel it is high time I venture forth and make a declaration of my own.

Assuredly, many will disagree with what I have to say here.
...

That was very well thought out and presented. Just the facts, so to speak. Sorry I can't find a lot to disagree with here. 🙂

Originally posted by Omnislash
If I can clarify anything further, or if there are any further questions, let me know.

I would like you to clarify your understanding of faith. It appears that your approach has been to study various religions and choose the one you like best. But surely God is God what ever way he is. If he is a nice God or a nasty God we cannot change that fact. You imply that you can only believe in a nice God. Is there anything that lead you to believe that a nice God is the truth? was it observation of the world, intuition, choice, a "leap of faith", or something I havent thought of?

I have met and heard about a number of people who have changed thier religion apparently to suit the circumstances eg a changing religion to suit that of ones spose.

On a side note: I believe that the God portrayed in the old testament is very different than the one portrayed by Jesus. Does this mean he had a change of heart or is one perception wrong? I also see a rather different message from Jesus' followers than from what is recorded of Jesus himself.