16 Jul 14
2 edits
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyThat does not explain the "WHY" of it all. Why is there sin and death in the first place? The Gospel makes no sense without an understanding of the creation and the fall.
The message contained in John 3:16 is the only issue for those who have not believed in Christ.
16 Jul 14
Originally posted by RJHindsThe focus is spiritual death and Christ not creation. The responsibility in witnessing for Christ is to provide accurate Gospel information not to argue its validity or win a debate. The convincing ministry of God the Holy Spirit makes the Gospel real.
That does not explain the "WHY" of it all. Why is there sin and death in the first place? The Gospel makes no sense without an understanding of the creation and the fall.
16 Jul 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI disagree. A gospel without validity is not any good.
The focus is spiritual death and Christ not creation. The responsibility in witnessing for Christ is to provide accurate Gospel information not to argue its validity or win a debate. The convincing ministry of God the Holy Spirit makes the Gospel real.
16 Jul 14
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHinds"The convincing [and convicting] ministry of God the Holy Spirit [the Executor of Salvation] makes the Gospel real [understandable and effective for salvation to those who have positive volition at the point of gospel hearing]." I respect
I disagree. A gospel without validity is not any good.
your right to disagree by assuming the gospel which is alive and powerful requires human strength for its validation.
16 Jul 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyFaith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
"The convincing [and convicting] ministry of God the Holy Spirit [the Executor of Salvation] makes the Gospel real [understandable and effective for salvation to those who have positive volition at the point of gospel hearing]." I respect
your right to disagree by assuming the gospel which is alive and powerful requires human strength for its validation.
For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever.
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes.
16 Jul 14
Originally posted by RJHindsSo what you are arguing is that that New Testament makes no sense without the Old Testament. Specifically you are arguing that there is no point to the Passion without the Fall, since if Adam and Eve hadn't left us in a state of sin we wouldn't need universal redemption. Have I understood what you are arguing correctly?
That does not explain the "WHY" of it all. Why is there sin and death in the first place? The Gospel makes no sense without an understanding of the creation and the fall.
If so then you cannot possibly be right because there is no way that the entire species can be damned for the the actions of just two of it's members. Sorry, but that really makes no sense whatsoever.
16 Jul 14
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsThe Gospel makes perfect sense without the old testiment. Many who heard the words of the Apostles never knew the Hebrew Scriptures.
That does not explain the "WHY" of it all. Why is there sin and death in the first place? The Gospel makes no sense without an understanding of the creation and the fall.
Your arguement is not valid
Knowledge of creation and the fall will not save you.
17 Jul 14
Originally posted by DeepThoughtThat is basically the idea. Because man sinned against God inspite of His warning, God was compelled to keep His word. Therefore, God's curse of mankind and the ground could not help from causing death to all creatures of God. Mutations in DNA information code that lead to cancer and disease is one evidence of this degeneration caused from the curses from God because of man's sin against Him.
So what you are arguing is that that New Testament makes no sense without the Old Testament. Specifically you are arguing that there is no point to the Passion without the Fall, since if Adam and Eve hadn't left us in a state of sin we wouldn't need universal redemption. Have I understood what you are arguing correctly?
If so then you cannot possibl ...[text shortened]... the the actions of just two of it's members. Sorry, but that really makes no sense whatsoever.
The gospel is the revealing of a plan of redemption for mankind and the creation that will ultimately result in a new creation in which evil and death are replaced by good and everlasting life.
17 Jul 14
Originally posted by PudgenikI believe you are wrong and I am right. If I give you a life jacket and tell you to wear it, wouldn't you want to know why? It would be much more comfortable not to wear the life jacket.
The Gospel makes perfect sense without the old testiment. Many who heard the words of the Apostles never knew the Hebrew Scriptures.
Your arguement is not valid
Knowledge of creation and the fall will not save you.
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18 Jul 14
Originally posted by RJHinds
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fir ...[text shortened]... amed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes.
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,
Good.
Neither am I - "The last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
18 Jul 14
Originally posted by sonshipThat is fine. However, Witness Lee changes the meaning by claiming it means that Jesus became the very same Person as the Holy Spirit, which is a false teaching and a heresy.For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,
Good.
Neither am I - [b]"The last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45) [/b]