1. The Tao Temple
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    02 Sep '06 21:55
    It's so easy to dismiss the beliefs of ancient Egypt, ancient Greece and Iron-Age Northern Europe as "Mythology" but the book of Genesis is just as naive and incredible. Why do so many christians undermine the credibility of christianity by defending that old tat when the gospels are all they need to base a sound religion on?
  2. DonationPawnokeyhole
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    02 Sep '06 21:59
    Originally posted by Mixo
    It's so easy to dismiss the beliefs of ancient Egypt, ancient Greece and Iron-Age Northern Europe as "Mythology" but the book of Genesis is just as naive and incredible. Why do so many christians undermine the credibility of christianity by defending that old tat when the gospels are all they need to base a sound religion on?
    Because Jesus believed in the God of the Old Testament.
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    02 Sep '06 22:13
    In the beginning God created.... . If God cannot create then what can he do? I do not dismiss anything in the Old Testament.
  4. DonationPawnokeyhole
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    02 Sep '06 22:13
    Originally posted by gambit3
    In the beginning God created.... . If God cannot create then what can he do? I do not dismiss anything in the Old Testament.
    He could sustain, without creating. Like a cuckolded husband.
  5. Hmmm . . .
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    03 Sep '06 02:002 edits
    Originally posted by Mixo
    It's so easy to dismiss the beliefs of ancient Egypt, ancient Greece and Iron-Age Northern Europe as "Mythology" but the book of Genesis is just as naive and incredible. Why do so many christians undermine the credibility of christianity by defending that old tat when the gospels are all they need to base a sound religion on?
    I really don’t think there’s any problem with mythology until we stop recognizing it as such. When we try to read mythology “literally,” we turn it into fantasy...

    That’s where the naiveté comes in—and I don’t think those old story-tellers were necessarily as naive as we sometimes assume (although some of their listeners may have been, too). I think they perhaps knew what they were about when they created myths and stories and parables and allegories. I read once about a tribal storyteller, who prefaced his stories with a statement like: “I can’t say that it happened just this way. But I can say this story is true.” So what does “true” mean in that sense? Certainly not a factual recounting. Perhaps that the story illustrates some truths about the human condition. And our search for meaning in a universe that does not disclose meaning for us—so that we have to make our own....

    ______________________________

    One Shabbos afternoon, Reb Reuven called me into his study. He was sitting behind his desk and motioned me to take the chair across from him. A volume of the Zohar was lying open in front of him.

    “Do you know what the Zohar is?” he asked.

    “Of course,” I said. “It is a mystical commentary on Torah written by Moshe deLeon, a thirteenth century Spanish kabbalist who....”

    “Nonsense!” he yelled at me, half rising out of his chair. “The Zohar isn’t just a commentary; it’s a Torah all by itself. It is a new Torah, a new telling of the last Torah. You do know what Torah is, don’t you?”

    Suspecting that I didn’t, and afraid to invoke his wrath a second time, I waited silently, certain that he would answer his own question. I was not disappointed.

    “Torah is story. God is story. Israel is story. You, my university-educated soon-to-be a liberal pain in the ass rabbi, are a story. We are all stories! We are all Torahs!...Listen, Rami,” Reuven said in a softer voice. “Torah starts with the word b’reisheet,* ‘Once upon a time!’”

    —Rabbi Rami Shapiro, Hasidic Tales

    * Conventionally translated “in the beginning” or “with beginning.”
  6. Standard membercaissad4
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    03 Sep '06 05:21
    Originally posted by Mixo
    It's so easy to dismiss the beliefs of ancient Egypt, ancient Greece and Iron-Age Northern Europe as "Mythology" but the book of Genesis is just as naive and incredible. Why do so many christians undermine the credibility of christianity by defending that old tat when the gospels are all they need to base a sound religion on?
    How does one undermine the credibility of a religionm such as Christiamity, which created an all-knowing god who conxciously and deliberately creates human beings who this god knows will not follow this gods laws and thus this god sends their eternal souls to burn forever in hell. Amd this god knows before the humans are even created that this will happen.
    Ancient peoples surely did not believe their religions to be myths.
    Jews, Christians amd Muslims do not believe their religions to be myths but in a thousand years the view held will probably change.
  7. The Tao Temple
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    03 Sep '06 08:05
    Originally posted by vistesd

    That’s where the naiveté comes in—and I don’t think those old story-tellers were necessarily as naive as we sometimes assume (although some of their listeners may have been, too). I think they perhaps knew what they were about when they created myths and stories and parables and allegories. I read once about a tribal storyteller, who prefaced his stories wit ...[text shortened]... for meaning in a universe that does not disclose meaning for us—so that we have to make our own....
    Good point and an amusing tale!
    Do you think that once upon a time there was a bad outbreak of food poisoning from some dodgy pork meat so to protect his people from themselves the rabbi told them that God finds pork offensive? Centuries later we understand food hygiene a lot better but it's too late - the story has become law?
  8. Standard memberdj2becker
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    03 Sep '06 08:58
    Originally posted by caissad4
    How does one undermine the credibility of a religionm such as Christiamity, which created an all-knowing god who conxciously and deliberately creates human beings who this god knows will not follow this gods laws and thus this god sends their eternal souls to burn forever in hell. Amd this god knows before the humans are even created that this will happen. ...[text shortened]... believe their religions to be myths but in a thousand years the view held will probably change.
    Your view of Christianity is rather warped to say the least.

    I would also again like to point out that you are assuming a moral law here. Would you care to justify how you can do this within an atheistic, naturalistic framework?
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    03 Sep '06 12:20
    Originally posted by Mixo
    It's so easy to dismiss the beliefs of ancient Egypt, ancient Greece and Iron-Age Northern Europe as "Mythology" but the book of Genesis is just as naive and incredible. Why do so many christians undermine the credibility of christianity by defending that old tat when the gospels are all they need to base a sound religion on?
    Their inner wisdom which tells them that they are wrong makes them attack other beliefs to bolster their own belief
  10. Standard memberdj2becker
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    03 Sep '06 14:46
    Originally posted by Serendipity
    Their inner wisdom which tells them that they are wrong makes them attack other beliefs to bolster their own belief
    Is that not exactly what you are doing with this statement?
  11. Donationrwingett
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    03 Sep '06 15:38
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    Is that not exactly what you are doing with this statement?
    Pointing out that other people are intolerant hypocrites does not make oneself an intolerant hypocrite.
  12. Standard memberdj2becker
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    03 Sep '06 15:491 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Pointing out that other people are intolerant hypocrites does not make oneself an intolerant hypocrite.
    As an atheist, you are assuming a moral law here. Who is your moral lawgiver?

    By who's moral standard does a naturalistic atheist accuse someone of being an intolerant hypocrite?
  13. Donationrwingett
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    03 Sep '06 15:52
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    As an atheist, you are assuming a moral law here. Who is your moral lawgiver?
    Mankind himself is the moral lawgiver. Laws are created by men to serve men.
  14. Standard memberdj2becker
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    03 Sep '06 15:54
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Mankind himself is the moral lawgiver. Laws are created by men to serve men.
    As the opinions of mankind differ, why should one man take heed to the moral laws of another?
  15. Donationrwingett
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    03 Sep '06 15:59
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    As the opinions of mankind differ, why should one man take heed to the moral laws of another?
    Opinions differ on many matters. But many do not. All civilizations hold that murder is wrong, for example. Basically, that which helps or promotes human welfare is to be preferred to that which hinders or harms human welfare.
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