1. Standard membermenace71
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    07 Sep '09 19:47
    The two are intertwined. If Jesus is not God? Why pray to Jesus then? Did you JW's know that the WTS once taught that it was ok to worship Jesus? Then they changed this doctrine and tried to hide this fact. Interesting little tid bit.




    Manny
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    07 Sep '09 20:204 edits
    Originally posted by menace71
    The two are intertwined. If Jesus is not God? Why pray to Jesus then? Did you JW's know that the WTS once taught that it was ok to worship Jesus? Then they changed this doctrine and tried to hide this fact. Interesting little tid bit.




    Manny
    what did Jesus say, when he gave the model prayer? you can find it at Matthew chapter six verse nine.

    (Matthew 6:9-15) . . .“you must pray, then, this way: “‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.  Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.  Give us today our bread for this day;  and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.  And do not bring us into temptation, but deliver us from the wicked one.’

    what is the name of the Father that it should be sanctified? Pslam 83:18, states,

    (Psalm 83:18) . . .That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.

    Did Christ say, let my name be sanctified, no he said, our fathers name should be , yes that is correct our Father, for Christ was a created being.! Did Christ say let my will be done, no he said let the fathers will be done. This verse once again shows the utter folly of the trinity, for if it is true, Christ would have been praying to himself! the trinitartians would now have us believe that Christ created himself, resurrected himself and now prays to himself! I that is not utter folly than i don't know what is.

    there are many belief's the witnesses once held, but since we have found them to be false we have discarded them, can the same be said of those who cling to their ancient dogmas borrowed from the Greeks, i dont think so, read it and weep you trinitarians, read it and weep! your traditions have made the word of god invalid!
  3. Standard membermenace71
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    07 Sep '09 22:25
    Ok so How do we account for men praying to Jesus? They do this it's in the bible.







    Manny
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    07 Sep '09 22:47
    Originally posted by menace71
    Ok so How do we account for men praying to Jesus? They do this it's in the bible.







    Manny
    How do you account for what Christ taught through word and deed and is famously recorded in the Lords Prayer? if you are intent on mentioning Steven, then go ahead, let us see what happens, but i would rather you addressed these issue first.
  5. Standard membermenace71
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    08 Sep '09 00:59
    The Lord's prayer is a model of how we should address God in prayer.
    Jesus was contrasting it with How people were praying out loud and to be seen by men.


    Manny
  6. Standard membermenace71
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    08 Sep '09 01:05
    Originally posted by menace71
    Ok so How do we account for men praying to Jesus? They do this it's in the bible.







    Manny
    Ok So why did men pray to Jesus in the bible? Why do men still pray to Jesus?



    Manny
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    08 Sep '09 01:051 edit
    Originally posted by menace71
    Ok so How do we account for men praying to Jesus? They do this it's in the bible.







    Manny
    Computer was acting up!! Posted more than once !!
  8. Standard membermenace71
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    08 Sep '09 01:07
    I addressed the Lord's prayer and now explain men praying to Jesus within the bible? Why would I pray to Jesus if He is only a created being?








    Manny
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    08 Sep '09 02:48
    Originally posted by menace71
    Ok So why did men pray to Jesus in the bible? Why do men still pray to Jesus?



    Manny
    Some men may pray to Jesus but we pray to his Father. Jesus is a mediator between humans and God. 1Tim 2:5.
    Mediator.....Check it out in your dictionary.
  10. Standard membermenace71
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    08 Sep '09 03:042 edits
    Sounds very similar to Catholics saying Mary is there mediator. Although the book of Hebrews indeed says Christ is our mediator. He is our advocate before the Father. The book of Hebrews speaks on the supremacy of Christ. How He is above the angels even. The book of Hebrews contrast the the old covenant with man with the new covenant.


    Manny
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    08 Sep '09 03:06
    Originally posted by menace71
    Ok So why did men pray to Jesus in the bible? Why do men still pray to Jesus?



    Manny
    Because they did not have the edited JW version of the Bible.
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    08 Sep '09 08:09
    Originally posted by whodey
    Because they did not have the edited JW version of the Bible.
    oohhh touchy touchy touchy! you of course meant to say, restored version of the Bible, naturally. 🙂
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    08 Sep '09 21:57
    Originally posted by menace71
    Ok So why did men pray to Jesus in the bible? Why do men still pray to Jesus?



    Manny
    That's something that churches came up with to instill allegiance to a particular expression of faith. Because Jesus was Jewish and did not form a church, you find no references from Jesus for the necessity of praying to him. Jesus wanted people to have faith and covenant with his heavenly father, not with Jesus.

    Instances of praying to Jesus happen post-Gospels; that is, Acts and afterwards.
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    08 Sep '09 23:44
    Originally posted by Badwater
    That's something that churches came up with to instill allegiance to a particular expression of faith. Because Jesus was Jewish and did not form a church, you find no references from Jesus for the necessity of praying to him. Jesus wanted people to have faith and covenant with his heavenly father, not with Jesus.

    Instances of praying to Jesus happen post-Gospels; that is, Acts and afterwards.
    1. "Guard my sheep",
    2."No comes to The Father but thru Me",
    3. Jesus Is God,
    4. look at 2
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    09 Sep '09 00:10
    Originally posted by daniel58
    1. "Guard my sheep",
    2."No comes to The Father but thru Me",
    3. Jesus Is God,
    4. look at 2
    Somewhere in #2 I do not see "No one comes to the Father except by praying to Me." That verse is in a different context and one of these days I'll offer up a sermon on it for you.
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