Originally posted by roigam
You are confusing the 144,000 listed before the "great crowd" who are the martyrs with the great crowd itself.
(Revelation 7:4-8) And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel: 5 Out of the tribe of Judah 12,000 sealed; out of the tribe of Reuʹben 12,000; out of the tribe of Gad 12,000; 6 out of th ...[text shortened]... mbered great crowd that will be saved thru the tribulation.
This is simply what the Bible says.
No.
Again you have this wrong.
Yes, of course there are two groups, this is plain. The 144,000 are ethnic Jews, not JWs, for one thing. And they are sealed to God and they survive the Tribulation, for they are to meet Jesus at Mt. Zion (see below).
The martyrs, who do not survive the Tribulation, are the great multitude of all nations.
Far more people will die in the Tribulation than will survive. To claim that only the 144,000 are martyrs and that the multitudes survive the Tribulation is, well, crazy.
"And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God." -- Revelation 14:1-5, KJV