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Sports Forum

  1. Subscriber Crowley
    Not Aleister
    23 Jun '10 12:19
    Mark Boucher just became the first player in cricket history to get 500 dismissals and score 5000 runs.
    Mark says he will play test cricket as long as he is selected and has no plans to retire.

    South Africa sure are blessed, having the best cricketer in history, Jacques Kallis and one of the best keeper/batsmen cricket has ever seen in the same team.
  2. Standard member RevRSleeker
    CerebrallyChallenged
    23 Jun '10 16:06
    Originally posted by Crowley
    Mark Boucher just became the first player in cricket history to get 500 dismissals and score 5000 runs.
    Mark says he will play test cricket as long as he is selected and has no plans to retire.

    South Africa sure are blessed, having the best cricketer in history, Jacques Kallis and one of the best keeper/batsmen cricket has ever seen in the same team.
    Both very durable players...but Jaques Kallis, 'the best cricketer in history,' is a very dubious remark indeed, sorry but it is...I think you know this though
  3. 23 Jun '10 16:45
    Oh, don't set him off on that again!

    Regarding Boucher, his longevity is extremely impressive (most tests as keeper by some margin). But "one of the best keeper/batsmen cricket has ever seen" is definitely pushing it. Compare his batting average to two players he's overlapped with: Gilchrist and Flower. It doesn't come close. Now they'd qualify for that description.
  4. Subscriber Crowley
    Not Aleister
    23 Jun '10 20:47
    Originally posted by mtthw
    Oh, don't set him off on that again!

    Regarding Boucher, his longevity is extremely impressive (most tests as keeper by some margin). But "one of the best keeper/batsmen cricket has ever seen" is definitely pushing it. Compare his batting average to two players he's overlapped with: Gilchrist and Flower. It doesn't come close. Now they'd qualify for that description.
    Gilchrist was a cricket machine. Well, still is actually, as he's still playing decent cricket in the IPL.

    Flower? Really? He was a good batsman, but not fit to carry out an extra pair of gloves for Boucher. Hell, I'd rate Healy and Stewart in the same territory as Bouch, but never Flower.

    Anyway, I didn't say Bouch was 'the best'. He is definitely a top 5 keeper/batsman, depending on how you weight keeping vs. batting. Gilly is number 1 though. No doubt about it.
  5. Subscriber Crowley
    Not Aleister
    23 Jun '10 20:54
    Originally posted by RevRSleeker
    Both very durable players...but Jaques Kallis, 'the best cricketer in history,' is a very dubious remark indeed, sorry but it is...I think you know this though
    Kallis batting - 4th IN CRICKET HISTORY overall, needing only 100 odd runs to move past Lara in combined Test, ODI and Pro20's
    http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/content/records/284269.html

    Kallis bowling - 22nd most wickets IN CRICKET HISTORY in combined Test, ODI and Pro20's
    http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283980.html

    Also, where these two sets intersect, he is by far the best fielder.



    End of discussion.
  6. 24 Jun '10 09:16 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Crowley
    Flower? Really? He was a good batsman, but not fit to carry out an extra pair of gloves for Boucher. Hell, I'd rate Healy and Stewart in the same territory as Bouch, but never Flower.
    Yes, Flower. Test batting average while keeping of 53.70, compared to Boucher's 31.04, Stewart's 34.92 (never performed as well as a batsman while keeping) and Healy's 27.39. And that in a very weak team where he had the pressure of being the only world-class player. None of them come close as a keeper-batsman.
  7. Subscriber Crowley
    Not Aleister
    24 Jun '10 21:10
    Originally posted by mtthw
    Yes, Flower. Test batting average while keeping of 53.70, compared to Boucher's 31.04, Stewart's 34.92 (never performed as well as a batsman while keeping) and Healy's 27.39. And that in a very weak team where he had the pressure of being the only world-class player. None of them come close as a keeper-batsman.
    See, I think you have the wrong impression of what a keeper-batsmen role in a team is.

    Firstly, he needs to be a proper wicket keeper.

    If he then happens to have a decent, or even good batting average, THAT makes him world class. Flower was merely a batsman who fielded with gloves on, possibly because that leather ball hurts when hit at you.

    Just because he was utilized at keeper, doesn't mean he actually did enough to be called a keeper-batsman...