1. Standard memberbill718
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    14 Dec '08 09:211 edit
    I'm going to a minefield with this, but here goes. High School & College sports in America needs a basic change. High School and Colleges in America need to be academic institutions...PERIOD! There are far too many young men (and women) in college pretending to be high shool and college students, when in fact they are only there to major in football, baseball, and basketball, hoping for a "career" in pro sports. These so called "institutions of higher learning" are just recruting grounds for the NFL, NBA, WNBA and Major League Baseball.
    Sports clubs should be made available if one wishes to pursue this path, but using colleges as spring boards to sports careers is wrong headed. When a college football coach makes a bigger salary than the college president (as frequently happens) this speaks of a system gone very wrong!! Don't misunderstand...I love sports. I was a pretty good High School and College distance runner years ago, but the college sports system in America needs a major overhaul!! 😏
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    14 Dec '08 14:09
    Education in the US needs to be changed. We need to give those who don't want to be in school a choice. If they don't want to learn academic stuff, then they should be taught a trade. Basic academics only. Math doesn't even need to be as high as Algebra I.

    Tie the social net to getting an education of some sort. If the kid is not in some sort of school, even home school, then no social security benefits at all. Whoever does not complete an education does not receive benefits. But as long as the person is getting an eduction, even later in life, then the person can receive benefits.

    Once you have academic institutions actually teaching because everyone there is trying, then dump the sports. You should dump music, art and drama while you are at it. Have 'clubs' for those kinds of things.
  3. Subscribershortcircuit
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    14 Dec '08 16:11
    Originally posted by bill718
    I'm going to a minefield with this, but here goes. High School & College sports in America needs a basic change. High School and Colleges in America need to be academic institutions...PERIOD! There are far too many young men (and women) in college pretending to be high shool and college students, when in fact they are only there to major in football, basebal ...[text shortened]... nce runner years ago, but the college sports system in America needs a major overhaul!! 😏
    Well, you need to consider the root of the problem and then you can work on a solution. The root is financial. It costs money to provide education. Tax dollars collected and distributed are not enough to cover the costs of educating the masses. If you can agree to that point, then the next is entitlement. Is everyone entitled to an education? Shouldn't their be some merit applied here? If they show scholastic appitutde, but don't have the financial means, then you could exercise schiolarships for merit. If they don't have the apptitude, but they have the desire to experience the education, then they must pay for the ride.

    All that being said, the function of high school is to prepare you for life after high school. Whether that is going into the workplace, or going to college. The purpose for college is to teach you to learn for the next level.....life, career, etc... A great portion of the college education is repetition and regurgitation of material that is virtually meaningless except that you have learned the process. Why do you have a problem with the system that allows a kid who wants to go into to acting to take drama...or into music to take music... or into sports to play sports? The same scholarship or pat system should be applied as stated above in all of these cases. But, graduating from any of the endeavors of college does not guarantee success at the next level, and it never has.

    The simple fact that collegiate sports generat huge sums of money that can be used to improve existing facilities or create new facilities where none previously existed. That is why there is such an emphasis of sports, which seems to rankle you. But when you consider the good that it does, and not simply focusing on the exploitation of the student-athlete, then it really isn't as bad as you make it out.

    Having been a collegiate student -athlete at the University of Texas, I am more disappointed at the restrictions that are placed on student-athletes that most of you probably are not even aware of. These restrictions apply to both scholarship and non-scholarship athletes. Because of the scandals of over-zealous boosters (and, in fairness, the greed of some of the scholaship athletes) there are several hardships placed on the athletic body as a whole. Not only are they required to get their classwork done(although several have been shown to be unscrupulous in this area), they also have practice time, training time as well as game time. This time equates to a 40 hour week by itself (or a full time job!!). The only problem here is that the athlete does not get any type of stipend for this effort, nor are they allowed any. That is the joke of the system. They aren't allowed to get part-time employment to earn money either. And if they are supported from their parents, the source of the monetary flow is scrutinized to make sure there is no impropriety. Of course, there are not enough investigators to catch all of the cheaters, but they are able to catch a portion, and the threat of prosecution is the only deterent to the crime, if you will.

    What all of this means is that an honest kid, who does his own classwork and homework and plays sports for his college, basically gets to live in poverty during the year. The remainder of the student body, including the arts, are not saddled with this burden, yet many look at the athletes with such disdain. Contrary to popular opinion, all athletes are not dumb, they all do not cheat, and some are among the most gifted students academically at their respective institutions.
    Why do you seek to punish the entire group over the actions of some of the participants? How many kids attending college maintain a 40 hour+ workweek on top of the classroom time and homework time? Not very many. This allows very liitle time for social interaction and "the college experience". Granted, this is a perk and not a fundamental need, but many non-athletes skate along on daddy's money or scholarships and do not have to deal with the extra hardships of the student athlete. I believe the student athlete should actually be paid a stipend for them to be able to catch a meal, go to a movie, do their laundry, pay for gasoline. I am not advocating a salary, by any means, but a small amount that allows them to do something other than the robotic activities of the system.

    So, to summarize, it is all about money. When you find a better source of revenue, then you can look to reforms. Otherwise, just like healthcare in America, the college education will become too expensive for most to even consider. The machine we call government is continuing to grow and it is feeding itself with our tax dollars. We are all working more of our workweek to fund the government than we are to fund ourselves.
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    14 Dec '08 16:18
    The simple fact that collegiate sports generat huge sums of money that can be used to improve existing facilities or create new facilities where none previously existed.

    This is only true for a small miority of elite schools and for only a handful of sports. For most schools, athletics are a drain on the budget. The money making sports are football and basketball. At most schools, even these sports are a losing proposition.
  5. Russ's Pocket
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    14 Dec '08 16:37
    Originally posted by bill718
    I'm going to a minefield with this, but here goes. High School & College sports in America needs a basic change. High School and Colleges in America need to be academic institutions...PERIOD! There are far too many young men (and women) in college pretending to be high shool and college students, when in fact they are only there to major in football, basebal ...[text shortened]... nce runner years ago, but the college sports system in America needs a major overhaul!! 😏
    http://www.amazon.com/Beer-Circus-Big-Time-Undergraduate-Education/dp/0805068112
    This is a book you might look to for answers.
  6. Subscribershortcircuit
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    14 Dec '08 16:39
    Originally posted by Eladar
    [b]The simple fact that collegiate sports generat huge sums of money that can be used to improve existing facilities or create new facilities where none previously existed.

    This is only true for a small miority of elite schools and for only a handful of sports. For most schools, athletics are a drain on the budget. The money making sports are football and basketball. At most schools, even these sports are a losing proposition.[/b]
    Of course this is true. How else do you think they could fund those programs were it not for the fund genearting capacity of football & basketball? I never said that all sports generate like sums.
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    14 Dec '08 18:11
    Originally posted by shortcircuit
    Of course this is true. How else do you think they could fund those programs were it not for the fund genearting capacity of football & basketball? I never said that all sports generate like sums.
    They take money that could go toward the general fund, text book fund, or teacher pay and redirect it to pay for sports.

    Football and basketball lose money at most schools. They are funded at a loss just like every other school program. It is only at elite programs where even football and basketball generate money.

    Here is a quote from an article about Dartmouth's football team to support what I'm saying:

    Much of the current debate over football teams stems from the well-publicized revelation that, contrary to popular perception, football is a money loser, not a money maker, for most schools. According to the National Collegiate Athletic Association, only about 70 teams in the country actually make a profit.


    http://thedartmouth.com/2002/10/23/news/large/

    Here's another quote:

    To much media fanfare, Boston University nixed its football team in 1997, citing the team’s losing streak, declining popularity and annual revenues of only about $100,000 as being insufficient to justify the $3 million dollars spent on the team annually.
  8. Subscribershortcircuit
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    14 Dec '08 20:001 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    They take money that could go toward the general fund, text book fund, or teacher pay and redirect it to pay for sports.

    Football and basketball lose money at most schools. They are funded at a loss just like every other school program. It is only at elite programs where even football and basketball generate money.

    Here is a quote from an article abou ,000 as being insufficient to justify the $3 million dollars spent on the team annually. [/i]
    This may be a bit too much for you to comprehend being an OU alum, but it is not a necessity for EVERY school to have a sports program. If you can't afford it, don't have it. Yes, it would reduce the number of teams, but so what? Every school does not offer every possible degree plan either. You have to have some fiscal responsibility. Look at OU. They field the best Texans money can buy, and have for years. Maybe Dartmouth doesn't field teams, but there are many schools that can sustain programs.
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    14 Dec '08 20:143 edits
    This may be a bit too much for you to comprehend being an OU alum

    I graduated from ACU in Abilene Texas.

    but there are many schools that can sustain programs.


    Yeah, about 70.

    Assuming that these schools are generally good schools, if you get rid of all the bad schools(those who don't make money), who will they beat? A football team is nothing without other teams to play.
  10. Subscribershortcircuit
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    14 Dec '08 20:34
    Originally posted by Eladar
    [b]This may be a bit too much for you to comprehend being an OU alum

    I graduated from ACU in Abilene Texas.

    but there are many schools that can sustain programs.


    Yeah, about 70.

    Assuming that these schools are generally good schools, if you get rid of all the bad schools(those who don't make money), who will they beat? A football team is nothing without other teams to play.[/b]
    A sooner wannabe?? Well, I can certainly understand not bragging up ACU's heroic feats on the gridiron.

    With regard to your somewhat moronic statement about how the reduction to your estimated 70 schools would play with much stronger programs, and would play each other. We wouldn't have to have the plethora of crappy Bowl games and they would be back to a few quality bowls....or even a playoff system. Either way, no matter how you slice it, it will always be the haves against the have nots.
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    14 Dec '08 21:18
    Actually, ACU had a pretty good football team this year.

    Just because you like a team doesn't mean you've gone to the school or live in the city. I would say that most Whorn fans haven't attended nor will they ever attend the school.

    If you did away with all school programs that did not generate enough money to sustain itself, you'd basically do away with all non-BCS schools. Sure there would be a few non-BCS conference teams left, but not many.

    High schools would do away with far more teams. It is at the high school level that I'd think you'd find it alot more difficult to find teams to play.
  12. Subscribershortcircuit
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    14 Dec '08 21:26
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Actually, ACU had a pretty good football team this year.

    Just because you like a team doesn't mean you've gone to the school or live in the city. I would say that most Whorn fans haven't attended nor will they ever attend the school.

    If you did away with all school programs that did not generate enough money to sustain itself, you'd basically do away w ...[text shortened]... high school level that I'd think you'd find it alot more difficult to find teams to play.
    How can ACU afford to field the team. You know that has to be a tremendous financial strain on them. Oh man, that is really tough.

    Your suggestion that most Horn fans never went to school there shows me that you haven't got the first clue about anything you are saying. LMAO!!

    Who would need the BCS?? We didn't need them years ago and we don't need them now. Hell the BCS screws it up and allows teams that lose by 10 on a neutral site to finish higher in the standings than the team that beat them. Sounds like a flawed system to me. I, for one, would be delighted to see the BCS gone for good.

    At the high school level you would be amazed at how many schools would be able to suuport sports programs. Hell, there are some High School programs that probably have bigger bankrolls than ACU does.
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    14 Dec '08 21:38
    Your suggestion that most Horn fans never went to school there shows me that you haven't got the first clue about anything you are saying. LMAO!!

    There's no way to prove it one way or the other. But I do know a few whorns fans and none of them ever attended the school.

    As for not being able to afford to field a team, that isn't the discussion. The question is whether or not a team generates enough money to pay for itself. This should include coaches salaries and every other expense that it takes to run the program.

    Obviously every schools that has a team can pay for it. Your point was that the reason why these teams exist is because they generate enough money to pay for themselves. As I've pointed out, in most cases this is not true.
  14. Subscribershortcircuit
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    14 Dec '08 21:56
    Originally posted by Eladar
    [b]Your suggestion that most Horn fans never went to school there shows me that you haven't got the first clue about anything you are saying. LMAO!!

    There's no way to prove it one way or the other. But I do know a few whorns fans and none of them ever attended the school.

    As for not being able to afford to field a team, that isn't the discussion. ...[text shortened]... te enough money to pay for themselves. As I've pointed out, in most cases this is not true.[/b]
    Your first point proves that you have no proof about what you say, you speak in generalities about what you feel. That won't cut the mustard because you are showing yourself to be quite unreliable. LMAO when you say you know a few Horns fans who didn't go to school there...therefore you reason that there are more Horns fans who never went to the school than there are those who did. Using your logic, since I know one idiot who went to ACU, it is safe to assume that all ACU graduates are idiots, or at least most of them? What a rube!! Can't waste any more time on you. You haven't got a clue.
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    14 Dec '08 22:16
    Now that I've proven that your original post was nothing but alot of hot air, I suppose we can deal with something else.

    LMAO when you say you know a few Horns fans who didn't go to school there...therefore you reason that there are more Horns fans who never went to the school than there are those who did

    Perhaps you can come up with some numbers to support your side of the issue. There are alot of people in Texas who love the Whorn, but have never attended any University. Same thing happens in Oklahoma. They are generally called the Wal-Mart fans because they get their team gear from Wal-Mart.
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