1. Subscriberno1marauder
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    12 Apr '13 19:21
    Carlos Quentin of the Padres charged the mound yesterday after Zack Greinke hit him with a pitch on the upper arm leading off the sixth in a game the Dodgers led by one. Greinke wound up with a broken collarbone and will miss at least two months. Quentin has led the majors in being hit by pitches the last two years.

    Matt Kemp, Greinke's teammate, said that if Quentin plays in a game before Greinke is back from the DL it's unjust. Agree or disagree?
  2. Standard membersh76
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    12 Apr '13 20:571 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Carlos Quentin of the Padres charged the mound yesterday after Zack Greinke hit him with a pitch on the upper arm leading off the sixth in a game the Dodgers led by one. Greinke wound up with a broken collarbone and will miss at least two months. Quentin has led the majors in being hit by pitches the last two years.

    Matt Kemp, Greinke's te ...[text shortened]... if Quentin plays in a game before Greinke is back from the DL it's unjust. Agree or disagree?
    From a legal perspective, I've always been more in favor of punishing the intent and the act rather than the result. While the severity of Greinke's injury is a factor, it should not be the primary factor in determining the suspension. I'd rather look to see what other people who have charged the mound and gotten into fights with pitchers have gotten as a better barometer.
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    12 Apr '13 21:291 edit
    I watched the pitch about 25 times...the catcher setup low and away. Greinke throws up and in, there was no slippage out of the arm. Greinke then mouths off to Quentin.

    Greinke then makes another poor choice of leading with his shoulder. Quentin should be suspended 5 games. No punches from Quentin were thrown.. .he just went and tackled a guy. 10 times out of 10 a 95mph rock-solid ball hitting your Humerus hurts (or in this case back/shoulder area) more than an injured guy tackling you. Fluke injury here.

    http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/story/_/id/9162800/san-diego-padres-los-angeles-dodgers-brawl-zack-greinke-hits-carlos-quentin-pitch

    what does :03 look like to you?
  4. Subscriberno1marauder
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    12 Apr '13 21:391 edit
    Originally posted by Fright
    I watched the pitch about 25 times...the catcher setup low and away. Greinke throws up and in, there was no slippage out of the arm. Greinke then mouths off to Quentin.

    Greinke then makes another poor choice of leading with his shoulder. Quentin should be suspended 5 games. No punches from Quentin were thrown.. .he just went and tackled a guy. 10 times ou ...[text shortened]... -angeles-dodgers-brawl-zack-greinke-hits-carlos-quentin-pitch

    what does :03 look like to you?
    Is it your claim that Greinke deliberately hit Quentin on a 3-2 pitch to allow the tying run to reach base? I find that preposterous.
  5. Subscriberno1marauder
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    12 Apr '13 21:43
    Originally posted by sh76
    From a legal perspective, I've always been more in favor of punishing the intent and the act rather than the result. While the severity of Greinke's injury is a factor, it should not be the primary factor in determining the suspension. I'd rather look to see what other people who have charged the mound and gotten into fights with pitchers have gotten as a better barometer.
    Result is a major factor in law. For example, mere recklessness which causes no injury is normally a civil manner warranting damages but where recklessness causes injury it may well be punished with criminal sanctions. Quentin's act alone is blameworthy but the fact that it caused a major injury warrants a significant upgrade in punishment IMO.
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    12 Apr '13 22:50
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Is it your claim that Greinke deliberately hit Quentin on a 3-2 pitch to allow the tying run to reach base? I find that preposterous.
    There are a lot of pros for him doing it on purpose, and the 3-2 count in a 1 run game 6th inning is the only con. I don't know if it was an accident or purposeful but to assume pitchers play GTO all the time is odd to me. For instance there are many cases every season of umps warning a pitcher to not retaliate or else the manager+player will be ejected.... and then they bean a guy.

    3-2 count with nobody on base inst the worst time to hit someone. I think multiple men on base + a clear pitchers count can be brushed off but the bases were empty here vs a guy who hits 20ish HR a season in a team that's garbage hitting-wise isn't a terrible choice.

    Maybe he hit him, maybe he missed by 3 feet. I will never know... but my suspicious meter is high.
  7. Subscribershortcircuit
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    12 Apr '13 22:55
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Carlos Quentin of the Padres charged the mound yesterday after Zack Greinke hit him with a pitch on the upper arm leading off the sixth in a game the Dodgers led by one. Greinke wound up with a broken collarbone and will miss at least two months. Quentin has led the majors in being hit by pitches the last two years.

    Matt Kemp, Greinke's te ...[text shortened]... if Quentin plays in a game before Greinke is back from the DL it's unjust. Agree or disagree?
    Agreed. I think they should toss him for the entire season.
    Too stupid not to realize on a 3-2 count in a 1 run game the pitcher isn't throwing at you.

    Couple that with Quentin's propensity to dive across the plate, he deserves a steady
    diet of beanballs.
  8. Subscribershortcircuit
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    12 Apr '13 23:021 edit
    Originally posted by Fright
    There are a lot of pros for him doing it on purpose, and the 3-2 count in a 1 run game 6th inning is the only con. I don't know if it was an accident or purposeful but to assume pitchers play GTO all the time is odd to me. For instance there are many cases every season of umps warning a pitcher to not retaliate or else the manager+player will be ejected.... a he hit him, maybe he missed by 3 feet. I will never know... but my suspicious meter is high.
    You have obviously never pitched.

    NO pitcher throws at a guy in that situation....NONE

    There is absolutely no benefit.

    Secondly, Greinke mouthed off AFTER Quention gave him a menacing look.
    He said "What are you looking at?" or something along that line.
    He said it because Quentin was being a meat and trying to show him up.
    Quentin also dives into the plate in an attempt to get hit and so he can cover the
    outside half of the plate.

    The only pitcher that I ever knew who would intentionally toss at a hitter in a tight
    situation was Drysdale and that was if he was ordered to intentionally walk a hitter.
    He would plunk the batter on the first pitch. His rationale was "why waste four pitches
    when I can accomplish the same thing in one pitch".
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    13 Apr '13 00:11
    Originally posted by shortcircuit
    You have obviously never pitched.



    He said "What are you looking at?" or something along that line.
    You have obviously never hit. (I know there will be a long-winded rebuttal to this but I will be constant to your phrasings)

    Honestly what batter in the world would not look at a pitcher who hit him? I cant recall a batter ever running to first without looking a pitcher up to see if was intentional.

    I get it, you are obviously a pitcher and I truly believe you pitched a ton if you want a guy gone for the entire season... part of you must realize this is a emotional reaction, right? Who knows, maybe you are 6'11'' Randy Johnson and are used to saying "what are you looking at" and forced a nutty player to 1st like Quentin without peep.
  10. Subscriberno1marauder
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    13 Apr '13 02:58
    Originally posted by Fright
    You have obviously never hit. (I know there will be a long-winded rebuttal to this but I will be constant to your phrasings)

    Honestly what batter in the world would not look at a pitcher who hit him? I cant recall a batter ever running to first without looking a pitcher up to see if was intentional.

    I get it, you are obviously a pitcher and I truly b ...[text shortened]... aying "what are you looking at" and forced a nutty player to 1st like Quentin without peep.
    Quentin starts walking toward Greinke before Josh does anything. If he had flipped the bat and walked to first like 99% of the players in the game would have there would have been no incident. He deserves a severe suspension to the All-Star Break at least.
  11. Subscriberno1marauder
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    13 Apr '13 17:54
    Quentin got an 8 game suspension. In my view, baseball's priorities are askew; some minor leaguer using a banned substance with questionable properties that may enhance performance gets an automatic 60 day suspension while a 240 lb man assaulting someone in the middle of a game gets a week off (he's appealing and they usually knock off a game or two).

    There's a good review of the incident here: http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/58194/greinke-vs-quentin-the-official-breakdown
  12. Subscribershortcircuit
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    14 Apr '13 21:12
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Quentin got an 8 game suspension. In my view, baseball's priorities are askew; some minor leaguer using a banned substance with questionable properties that may enhance performance gets an automatic 60 day suspension while a 240 lb man assaulting someone in the middle of a game gets a week off (he's appealing and they usually knock off a game or t ...[text shortened]... www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/58194/greinke-vs-quentin-the-official-breakdown
    It was a slap on the hands. They should make charging the mound a mandatory 30 day
    suspension.

    They should not allow hitters to wear body armor and dive into the plate either.

    You could also make a mandatory 30 day suspension for hitting a hitter in the head
    (provided the hitter was NOT diving into the plate when he got hit).

    Pitchers have as much right to the inside part of the plate as the hitter does.
    If the hitter encroaches, he eats the risk. In fact, they need to enforce the run when
    the hitter gets hit and he is over the place, he does not get first base, but he should
    be automatically out.
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