1. Standard memberRevRSleeker
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    22 Oct '12 15:37
    Armstrong has now been shovelled to the gutter of sporting history, officially at least... will we all remember him for his latent talent, despite all the titles he's now been stripped of, or have the cycling bosses got this one right ??

    Despite every accusation made against sporting 'greats' ( and rewind a few years ago, before his own American cycling union 'further and further investigated him'... he most certainly was a legend, let us make no bones of that fact ! )
    Is it the sporting public and not the official sporting bodies, that determine whether someone was genuinely great ......or will this announcement now 'finalise' the whole episode, so forever he'll be regarded as one of sports biggest cheats ??
  2. Subscriberthaughbaer
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    22 Oct '12 22:22
    Originally posted by RevRSleeker
    Armstrong has now been shovelled to the gutter of sporting history, officially at least... will we all remember him for his latent talent, despite all the titles he's now been stripped of, or have the cycling bosses got this one right ??

    Despite every accusation made against sporting 'greats' ( and rewind a few years ago, before his own American cycl ...[text shortened]... lise' the whole episode, so forever he'll be regarded as one of sports biggest cheats ??
    He'll still be regarded as the best of his generation.. although his generation stank and put me off watching Le Tour for many years.
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    23 Oct '12 01:47
    I just wish the proof was made public...
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    23 Oct '12 16:43
    Poor Jan Ullrich.
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    23 Oct '12 23:051 edit
    Originally posted by RevRSleeker
    Armstrong has now been shovelled to the gutter of sporting history, officially at least... will we all remember him for his latent talent, despite all the titles he's now been stripped of, or have the cycling bosses got this one right ??

    Despite every accusation made against sporting 'greats' ( and rewind a few years ago, before his own American cycl lise' the whole episode, so forever he'll be regarded as one of sports biggest cheats ??
    The reality is that rather than having been a "great cyclist", he was a "great cheater". While it seems that many have accepted this reality, there are more than a few who avoid accepting it by creating excuses and rationalizations.
  6. Standard memberRevRSleeker
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    24 Oct '12 00:26
    I think here we see a small segment of what is the general divide; there as many people that 'hope' he didn't ( re: were we 'duped' ) as those that are prepared to accept the findings of the governing bodies. I'd like to know why it's taken so long IF ''we all knew that 'most' of the top guys were cheating''...all the testimony, from all the former riders \ team members \ doctors etc etc, indicate the governing bodies knew full well what was going on...indeed Armstrong was apparently caught 'red handed' in '00 or '02 I think, but they needed ever more proof...why, and why have we, the paying public, HAD to 'accept' this guy as being one of cyclings greats if they knew this all along ?? I feel short changed, I feel DUPED, if this is proven to be the case !! 'Proof', there's another thing as Armstrong has given up challenging the authorities..how do we read that also ?
    This is another dilemma, if this is one big stitch up, as many are claiming, then not only have we lost a great cyclist but also a brilliant charity; 'livestrong'..everyone has deserted Armstrong, all sponsors are demanding he pays ALL monies back..it's a legal quagmire that will cost him far more than the mere shirt on his back.
    It sours my interest in cycling, just who the hell is for real out there ( interesting to note that 'Jan Ullrich' is mentioned as a 'possible' !? ) It sours my belief that the governing body will ever get their act together when it's plain to see that there's been far too many of them more concerned over their own image ( ''it didn't \ won't happen on my watch'' is their attitude ! ) than the sport in general..
  7. Green Boots Cave
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    24 Oct '12 16:49
    Originally posted by Trev33
    Poor Jan Ullrich.
    Why?
  8. Standard memberRevRSleeker
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    25 Oct '12 00:041 edit
    Originally posted by biffo konker
    Why?
    I can't speak for 'Trev33', but Ullrich was also on the doping list...he was banned earlier this year..he did, however, push Armstrong to the limit when the two competed against each other..he won Le Tour in '97 and that result STANDS as his ban was for 'all POST '05 results'...he was way beyond his best in '05 and beyond, he won little in comparison at that point in his career. What does that tell us though, the governing body are just useless IMHO...
  9. Standard membersasquatch672
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    25 Oct '12 03:18
    I think he'll be back in cycling in ten years. With a welcome return.
  10. SubscriberProper Knob
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    25 Oct '12 09:24
    Originally posted by galveston75
    I just wish the proof was made public...
    http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org/
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    01 Nov '12 19:42
    Originally posted by RevRSleeker
    Armstrong has now been shovelled to the gutter of sporting history, officially at least... will we all remember him for his latent talent, despite all the titles he's now been stripped of, or have the cycling bosses got this one right ??

    Despite every accusation made against sporting 'greats' ( and rewind a few years ago, before his own American cycl ...[text shortened]... lise' the whole episode, so forever he'll be regarded as one of sports biggest cheats ??
    YouTube

    If I were innocent, I'd be screaming my lungs out.....the above is a TWO YEAR old gem...
  12. Standard memberRevRSleeker
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    01 Nov '12 23:49
    Originally posted by mudpie
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlTr2GSVUGg

    If I were innocent, I'd be screaming my lungs out.....the above is a TWO YEAR old gem...
    Brilliant, 'I'm tired of being told who to admire in this country !'..
    wonder if anyone has ever sued this highly amusing George Carlin character lol...
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    03 Nov '12 02:03
    He isnt sports biggest cheat. He wasnt cyclings only cheat.... Far from it. You would probably be safe betting that anybody who was a threat to unseat him any of those seven years was cheating just as much. You could say The Tour is the biggest farce in sports.
  14. Standard memberRevRSleeker
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    05 Nov '12 01:21
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    He isnt sports biggest cheat. He wasnt cyclings only cheat.... Far from it. You would probably be safe betting that anybody who was a threat to unseat him any of those seven years was cheating just as much. You could say The Tour is the biggest farce in sports.
    You're most probably right about anyone challenging him over the years of his dominance...sadly, we have to accept this IF the man himself cannot defend all the claims.
    What you've not pointed out though is that the Tour itself is by far and away THE most stringent with regard to dope testing...that may well sound like a nonsense comment given the fact so so many actually 'escaped' the wrath of a dope ban...but no, no other sport is as highly monitored, it was a literal game of hide and seek...working out just when, and how, they'd beat the tests...how long they could take it, how long they had to cease its use before the event etc etc. EPO was initially undetectable, wellllllllll, the tests were just plain unreliable..only the thickness of a cyclists oxygen heavy blood was given as an 'indication' of its presence, not nearly enough actual evidence needed. In that case the cyclist was 'retired for health reasons' along with an open invite for next years event. What else could they do, you can't ban someone if the test isn't 'whole' and without elements of doubt ? Of course now they have a better standard of test that actually truly works lol...and 'out of season' tests are treated as if they were actually competing on a 365 days a year Le Tour...cyclists HAVE to detail where they are available at a DAYS notice, anywhere in the world !
    The fact remains that the culture of drug cheating will never be so 'wholesale' as in the professionals that were employed to aid the cyclists. They are far more accountable now, indeed they are all vetted whereas before ANY doctor could be employed...'hiding' Dr's was common as why else would you need a world leading specialist in EPO use.. new and 'undetectable' drugs will no doubt raise alarms from time to time but that's the same for every sport. Don;t blame Le Tour for 'outing' a large group of athletes that ( assisted by the many dopers themselves ) wanted to win at all costs...Le Tour goes way above and beyond the world standard for anti doping, it's exactly why they catch what we all formerly believed to be the best !!
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    05 Nov '12 17:51
    Originally posted by RevRSleeker
    You're most probably right about anyone challenging him over the years of his dominance...sadly, we have to accept this IF the man himself cannot defend all the claims.
    What you've not pointed out though is that the Tour itself is by far and away THE most stringent with regard to dope testing...that may well sound like a nonsense comment given the fact ...[text shortened]... exactly why they catch what we all formerly believed to be the best !!
    The really sad thing is if doping is so rampant in the most stringent sport then how bad is it in other sports?
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