1. Subscriberno1marauder
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    08 Dec '11 18:34
    I never thought the Cardinals would lose him, but the Halos came up with A-Rod money: $254 million for 10 years. They also raided the Rangers for CJ Wilson.

    Does this make them legit contenders to win it all in 2012? And can the Cards recover or will next year be THE YEAR OF DESTINY (TYOD) for the resurgent Cincinnati Reds?
  2. Joined
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    08 Dec '11 19:44
    I'm not convinced losing Pujols damns the cardinals. I'll grant you he was a big bat to lose, but the cards have a good lineup even without him. I've been hearing on sports radio (I'm just outside of St Louis) that they might go after Beltran now, who could add some production and strengthen their outfield. I'm sorry to see Albert go, but I think the cards have an excellent chance to come out ahead here.
  3. Subscriberno1marauder
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    08 Dec '11 21:04
    Originally posted by dryhump
    I'm not convinced losing Pujols damns the cardinals. I'll grant you he was a big bat to lose, but the cards have a good lineup even without him. I've been hearing on sports radio (I'm just outside of St Louis) that they might go after Beltran now, who could add some production and strengthen their outfield. I'm sorry to see Albert go, but I think the cards have an excellent chance to come out ahead here.
    The Cardinals barely made the playoffs with Pujols. I scoff at them without him.

    Beltran will be 35 in April, runs like he should use a walker and missed more than half of both 2009 and 2010. Throw a $100 million at him, suckers.
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    08 Dec '11 21:39
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    The Cardinals barely made the playoffs with Pujols. I scoff at them without him.

    Beltran will be 35 in April, runs like he should use a walker and missed more than half of both 2009 and 2010. Throw a $100 million at him, suckers.
    Beltran isn't Pujols and the Cardinals have a new manager as well. But if Wainwright comes back it helps St. Louis.
  5. Subscribershortcircuit
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    08 Dec '11 23:43
    Makes me wonder if Albert was gone when LaRussa retired.
    I believe if Tony came back, Albert would have stayed.

    Or, perhaps Albert told Tony he was leaving for sure, and then Tony said it was time to retire.

    Albert may be the best pure hitter in baseball, but if he tears up a knee or a shoulder,
    he is just as done as a much less expensive player.

    Mike Scoscia is now on the hot seat to win this season with all of those high priced adds.
  6. Subscriberno1marauder
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    09 Dec '11 02:11
    Originally posted by shortcircuit
    Makes me wonder if Albert was gone when LaRussa retired.
    I believe if Tony came back, Albert would have stayed.

    Or, perhaps Albert told Tony he was leaving for sure, and then Tony said it was time to retire.

    Albert may be the best pure hitter in baseball, but if he tears up a knee or a shoulder,
    he is just as done as a much less expensive player.

    Mike Scoscia is now on the hot seat to win this season with all of those high priced adds.
    LaRussa was smart enough to see the iceberg the St. Louis Titanic was about to hit.
  7. Joined
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    09 Dec '11 04:43
    Simply put, Pujols is the best player of our era.

    HOWEVER, his numbers have been on the decline of late and the Cards know it. In addition, they know that they are not able to put up that kind of money and remain competitive.

    As for the Cards, they won a myriad of World Series before he ever came along and will win many more in the future. Simply put, the Cards are the best run team in MLB.
  8. Joined
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    09 Dec '11 04:46
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    .

    Does this make them legit contenders to win it all in 2012? And can the Cards recover or will next year be THE YEAR OF DESTINY (TYOD) for the resurgent Cincinnati Reds?[/b]
    Resurgent Reds? I'm just wondering when Votto will get the ax and go to another big market team. It's not a question of if, but when.
  9. Subscribershortcircuit
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    09 Dec '11 14:31
    Originally posted by whodey
    Simply put, Pujols is the best player of our era.

    HOWEVER, his numbers have been on the decline of late and the Cards know it. In addition, they know that they are not able to put up that kind of money and remain competitive.

    As for the Cards, they won a myriad of World Series before he ever came along and will win many more in the future. Simply put, the Cards are the best run team in MLB.
    I am not sure what you mean by "our era" because Pujols is NOT the best player of my era.
    He is not in the top 5 even.

    Henry Aaron, Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, Johnny Bench and Roberto Clemente all dwarf
    Albert in my eyes. There are several others that I have watched who I might elevate
    above him as well. I never saw Joe DiMaggio or Ted Williams play live.

    If you mean during the time that Albert played, he was the best player, then you might
    be correct.
    Albert was protected on defense. He is a great hitter. He is not a gold glove defensively.
    Would I take him on my team? You bet, any day.
  10. Standard membersh76
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    09 Dec '11 14:43
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    I never thought the Cardinals would lose him, but the Halos came up with A-Rod money: $254 million for 10 years. They also raided the Rangers for CJ Wilson.

    Does this make them legit contenders to win it all in 2012? And can the Cards recover or will next year be THE YEAR OF DESTINY (TYOD) for the resurgent Cincinnati Reds?
    The Cards were a good team that had a great six weeks. Even with Pujols they were not going to be anything close to the favorite to repeat anyway.

    With this extra wild card on the horizon, WS appearances and titles are becoming impossible to predict. The baseball post season has such a high degree of luck factored in that once a team makes the post season, they have almost as good a chance to win it all as anyone else does. And now that's going to be 10 teams every year.

    Now stories like the Red Sox collapse are going to be irrelevant because they have the second wild card to fall back on and teams with 88 wins in a lousy division gets a bye while 95 win wild cards have to play a one game play-in.

    For a Yankee fan like me, the regular season just became even more anticlimactic. Unless they have just a lousy year, the Yankees and Red Sox are going to be in the playoffs.

    Wake me up on October 1.

    I know all this has little to do with the OP, but I hate the second WC and I had to vent.
  11. Joined
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    10 Dec '11 04:397 edits
    Originally posted by shortcircuit
    I am not sure what you mean by "our era" because Pujols is NOT the best player of my era.
    He is not in the top 5 even.

    Henry Aaron, Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, Johnny Bench and Roberto Clemente all dwarf
    Albert in my eyes. There are several others that I have watched who I might elevate
    above him as well. I never saw Joe DiMaggio or Ted Williams p ...[text shortened]... at hitter. He is not a gold glove defensively.
    Would I take him on my team? You bet, any day.
    Actually, I was only thinking during the time that Prince Albert played.

    However, now that you mention it, lets compare him to the crew you mentioned.

    Pujols has a distinct disadvantage to the group you listed, simply because he has not been around as long to amass stats. As a result, I think that averages may be a better indicator. For example, the only one in your list to have a better OBP was Micky Mantle at .421. Pujols is at .420. In terms of batting averages, Pujols tops them all at .328, however, we don't take into consideration the deteriorating skills that come with longevity that effects the averages that may skew the numbers in favor of Pujols who has not played as long. However, Pujols has NEVER had a season below .300........except for this last one at .299. Just know that no one on your list has hit above .300 the first 12 years they played. No one. In fact, the closest overall average on your list is Roberto Clemente at .317, compare that to Pujols at .328. Something to also consider, Pujols has only played 3 less years than Roberto and Albert already has 205 more home runs and 24 more RBI's than Roberto.


    After this little bit of investigation, you have convinced me that Pujols is perhaps the best overall offensive player in ML history. Then again, perhaps the most impressive player on your list is Henry Aaron. In order to amass the same number of home runs in the same number of years, Pujols will need to average 35 home runs/year in the next 9 years. He would also need to keep his batting average above .300 to boot lifetime. He would also have to average about 100 RBI's every year to catch him in RBI's at the end of his career if he only plays another 9 years. Although it may be a tall order, I say its not in the realm of impossibility. More than likely he just gets tired of it all and retires early or get injured.



    Of course, what of the "D"? That is what makes a player like JB sooo special. No one ever threw out players like he did as well as call games like he did and had a pop in his bat to boot.

    Although Pujols will never be remembered for his "D", no one ever complains about it, now do they?

    I have watched in horror as a Reds fan for years as Prince Albert gets that timely grand slam in the 9th with the bases loaded time after time after time after #@@# time!!! 😠

    As Obionecanobi once said of Vader, "The man is more of a machine than human". 😛
  12. Joined
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    10 Dec '11 05:004 edits
    Originally posted by sh76
    For a Yankee fan like me, the regular season just became even more anticlimactic. Unless they have just a lousy year, the Yankees and Red Sox are going to be in the playoffs.

    Wake me up on October 1.

    .[/b]
    Are you whining, braggin, or just trying to piss me off? 😠

    Also, is this because the front office is just sooo good at what they do or is it because big money mindlessly pimps out the best ML players?

    Face it, baseball is broken, you just admitted as much.
  13. Joined
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    10 Dec '11 07:28
    Originally posted by whodey
    Are you whining, braggin, or just trying to piss me off? 😠

    Also, is this because the front office is just sooo good at what they do or is it because big money mindlessly pimps out the best ML players?

    Face it, baseball is broken, you just admitted as much.
    HA! The MLB isn't broken until it reaches the point the NBA has... can you believe the comissioner put a block on trading CP3?
  14. Joined
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    10 Dec '11 14:49
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    HA! The MLB isn't broken until it reaches the point the NBA has... can you believe the comissioner put a block on trading CP3?
    Thankfully, I don't follow the dribble that comes from the NBA. In fact, sports is waning in my life dramatically, especially after the college football scandels.

    Simply put, big money ruins everything. EVERYTHING!! And Whodey is sick of them all.
  15. Subscribershortcircuit
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    10 Dec '11 18:44
    Originally posted by whodey
    Actually, I was only thinking during the time that Prince Albert played.

    However, now that you mention it, lets compare him to the crew you mentioned.

    Pujols has a distinct disadvantage to the group you listed, simply because he has not been around as long to amass stats. As a result, I think that averages may be a better indicator. For example, the o ...[text shortened]...

    As Obionecanobi once said of Vader, "The man is more of a machine than human". 😛
    Let's examine your stats a little more closely.

    First of all, baseballs have flown out of stadiums at a more prolific rate overall during
    the last 15 years. This was due, in part, by MLB trying to lure fans back to the game.
    The ball is juiced, just as are many players. The equipment is better. Travel is better.
    You would expect that the stats would improve accordingly.

    That being said, I would temper the numbers of the current players when comparing them to earlier generations.
    If you want to do a true testament to the quality, why not perform a comparison between
    Pujols and the rest of his contemporaries, and then do the same with the players I listed.
    I believe this will narrow the skew for you sufficiently.

    Secondarily, if you are going to call someone the greatest player of all time, how
    can you dismiss 50% of the game (i.e. playing defense)? You cannot.

    How many runs did the players I mention save their respective teams due to their
    defensive prowess?
    Wouldn't you agree that saving a run is equal to generating a run in the course of a game?
    I certainly would say that it is.

    Pujols is a great player, no doubt. He will be in the HOF in the future, no doubt.
    He may be the best player of "his" era. But I do not think he is close to the best player ever.
    Sorry.
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