1. Subscriberno1marauder
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    28 Jun '08 22:27
    They are both having excellent seasons, both being in second place at almost the halfway point being only a 1/2 game and 1 game out in their respective divisions. Yet their attendance is abysmal; the Marlins are dead last in attendance and the Rays 27th, neither team even filling up half their seats on the average. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

    For all you people who think that revenue sharing or increased competitiveness will help the attendance of these and other franchises, what does this say to you?
  2. Joined
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    28 Jun '08 22:431 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    They are both having excellent seasons, both being in second place at almost the halfway point being only a 1/2 game and 1 game out in their respective divisions. Yet their attendance is abysmal; the Marlins are dead last in attendance and the Rays 27th, neither team even filling up half their seats on the average. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendanc ...[text shortened]... mpetitiveness will help the attendance of these and other franchises, what does this say to you?
    I think it says a couple of things. Firstly, perhaps baseball is dying off. Secondly, be careful where you place a major league team. Places that have a variety of entertainment options, other than baseball, should be shunned. The problem here is that you want major cities that will provide good attendance and revenue. I guess the solution is to pick big cities that are entertainment starved.
  3. SubscriberSmookieP
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    28 Jun '08 23:10
    Originally posted by whodey
    I think it says a couple of things. Firstly, perhaps baseball is dying off. Secondly, be careful where you place a major league team. Places that have a variety of entertainment options, other than baseball, should be shunned. The problem here is that you want major cities that will provide good attendance and revenue. I guess the solution is to pick big cities that are entertainment starved.
    I don't believe the reason that certain cities sell out their baseball games is because they lack entertainment. I believe it's because of tradition, with generation after generation attending. Both Florida cities lack this tradition, along with Arizona..

    Also, don't forget both the Rays and Marlins are coming off terrible seasons. Marlins have won the World series twice in 10 years.. that should've boosted attendance, but numerous boycotts of their games followed locally; Both those World Series' teams were sold off like cattle.

    Whodey, is there any basis behind your belief that the sport is "dying off?" I haven't heard that at all from anyone!
  4. Subscriberno1marauder
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    28 Jun '08 23:23
    Originally posted by whodey
    I think it says a couple of things. Firstly, perhaps baseball is dying off. Secondly, be careful where you place a major league team. Places that have a variety of entertainment options, other than baseball, should be shunned. The problem here is that you want major cities that will provide good attendance and revenue. I guess the solution is to pick big cities that are entertainment starved.
    Many teams are at or near record attendance levels; 9 are on pace to break the 3 million mark. There's absolutely no evidence at all that "baseball is dying out" as a spectator sport; that statement is laughable.
  5. Subscriberno1marauder
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    28 Jun '08 23:23
    Originally posted by SmookieP
    I don't believe the reason that certain cities sell out their baseball games is because they lack entertainment. I believe it's because of tradition, with generation after generation attending. Both Florida cities lack this tradition, along with Arizona..

    Also, don't forget both the Rays and Marlins are coming off terrible seasons. Marlins have won the ...[text shortened]... hind your belief that the sport is "dying off?" I haven't heard that at all from anyone!
    If that is true, no amount of money being thrown at the franchises will solve the attendance problems.
  6. SubscriberSmookieP
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    28 Jun '08 23:32
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    If that is true, no amount of money being thrown at the franchises will solve the attendance problems.
    I'd be curious to know how much actual attendance has to do with revenue. There's no way it could be the majority, especially nowadays with so many TV stations, internet, endorsements, etc. I actually get a much better view on TV....

    Loria, the owner of the Marlins says he's not worried about attendance, just getting a new stadium. He says this, yet obviously lack of revenue hits him directly in the pocket!
  7. Subscriberno1marauder
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    28 Jun '08 23:38
    Originally posted by SmookieP
    I'd be curious to know how much actual attendance has to do with revenue. There's no way it could be the majority, especially nowadays with so many TV stations, internet, endorsements, etc. I actually get a much better view on TV....

    Loria, the owner of the Marlins says he's not worried about attendance, just getting a new stadium. He says this, yet obviously lack of revenue hits him directly in the pocket!
    I assume Loria wants someone else to pay for the new stadium.

    The difference between 3-4 million attendance and 1-1.5 million attendance must be approximately $100 million a year or more in ticket price, parking, concessions, etc. That's not exactly chump change.
  8. SubscriberSmookieP
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    28 Jun '08 23:45
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    I assume Loria wants someone else to pay for the new stadium.

    The difference between 3-4 million attendance and 1-1.5 million attendance must be approximately $100 million a year or more in ticket price, parking, concessions, etc. That's not exactly chump change.
    It is for the Yankees. That difference alone only pays who, Jeter? I may be exaggerating, but not by much. The Marlins' total payroll for example is only 22 million. Several player's contracts are more than that!

    100 million a year is not impressive to me.
  9. Subscriberno1marauder
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    28 Jun '08 23:50
    Originally posted by SmookieP
    It is for the Yankees. That difference alone only pays who, Jeter? I may be exaggerating, but not by much. The Marlins' total payroll for example is only 22 million. Several player's contracts are more than that!

    100 million a year is not impressive to me.
    You think Jeter makes $100 million a year?
  10. Subscriberno1marauder
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    28 Jun '08 23:54
    The latest list from Forbes for revenue per year is from 2005 and is at: http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/33/Revenues_1.html

    The totals vary from a low of $114 million to a high of $277 million yearly. $100 million seems like a pretty big number to me given those parameters.
  11. SubscriberSmookieP
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    29 Jun '08 00:04
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    The latest list from Forbes for revenue per year is from 2005 and is at: http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/33/Revenues_1.html

    The totals vary from a low of $114 million to a high of $277 million yearly. $100 million seems like a pretty big number to me given those parameters.
    There's players with contracts for 10 years.. also, teams buy stadiums, players, etc. with profits projected over many many years.

    I do get what you're saying, but teams like the Pirates haven't had good attendance since the hey-day of their 70's teams. That franchise certainly doesn't look worried about going belly up.
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    29 Jun '08 19:44
    Originally posted by whodey
    I think it says a couple of things. Firstly, perhaps baseball is dying off. Secondly, be careful where you place a major league team. Places that have a variety of entertainment options, other than baseball, should be shunned. The problem here is that you want major cities that will provide good attendance and revenue. I guess the solution is to pick big cities that are entertainment starved.
    Your second statement applies to the Marlins. However, name three other major sporting attractions in the Tampa Bay area. The NFL and NHL seasons are not going on right now, so they don't count. The Rays are alone. As this is the Rays first good season, the fans have not gotten used to them winning yet and have not gotten past the days where they went to the games maybe once or twice a year. Also keep in mind that many people still think that the Rays are not for real (I have no idea why). So, until Tampa changes its habit of ignoring the Rays, the attendance will not go up. I know if I still lived in Tampa Bay, I would go see the Rays play. I have been a diehard Rays fan for years. Maybe it was the fact that I moved away with my bad luck for the Rays to start winning. 🙂 And trust me, there isn't a lot to do in the Tampa Bay area.
  13. Standard memberneonpeon41
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    30 Jun '08 04:44
    Best publicity is word of mouth.

    I live no where near Florida and all I have heard from various media outlets has been how negative the public is to both the Marlins and the Rays. Complaints I have heard over the years have been 1. fans protesting Rays ownership decisions, 2. Marlins owners selling WS-winning teams either in one or two-three years, 3. stadium issues (I hear Tampa couldn't even lure the Twins with a new stadium once they saw Tropicana, and the Metrodome is terrible!)

    Point is, if I'm hearing all this garbage about how much fans don't like what's going on for several years, it is unlikely the people living in Miami and Tampa will change their minds in the span of two-three months. What have the people in those areas been saying about their team? They may change their minds once late September hits and they realize they may have a shot at going to a postseason game, but it will be a fair-weather type of fan.

    I don't think the attendance problems in Florida are related to revenue-sharing. I think their attendance problems are more image- and public relations-related. This is something that takes a long time (2-3 seasons) to repair, as long as those teams can enjoy some level of improved performance.

    Don't the Miami Dolphins and Miami Heat also have attendance problems? As a previous poster pointed out, maybe that area is too saturated with things to do.

    np
  14. Standard memberDerfel Cadarn
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    30 Jun '08 08:30
    Originally posted by neonpeon41
    Best publicity is word of mouth.

    I live no where near Florida and all I have heard from various media outlets has been how negative the public is to both the Marlins and the Rays. Complaints I have heard over the years have been 1. fans protesting Rays ownership decisions, 2. Marlins owners selling WS-winning teams either in one or two-three years, ...[text shortened]... s a previous poster pointed out, maybe that area is too saturated with things to do.

    np
    Miami sports teams suck.
  15. Joined
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    30 Jun '08 11:12
    Originally posted by SmookieP
    Whodey, is there any basis behind your belief that the sport is "dying off?" I haven't heard that at all from anyone![/b]
    I say this because all I hear is that fan attendance is down across the league. I have not done any analysis on it, however. All I know is that ever since the baseball strikes in the 90's, baseball has not seemed to be the same.
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