50 move rule

RBHILL

Acts 13:48

Tournaments

25 Sep 05

RBHILL

Acts 13:48

California

Joined: 21 May 03
Moves: 227555

25 Sep 05

does it count in these tournys? were if a piece is not taken in 50 move the game is drawn?

And what about 3 moves rule too?

Freddie2008

9 Edits

London

Joined: 28 Sep 04
Moves: 110329

25 Sep 05

Originally posted by RBHILL
does it count in these tournys? were if a piece is not taken in 50 move the game is drawn?

And what about 3 moves rule too?

They always count....always.

flexmore

Quack Quack Quack !

Chesstralia

Joined: 18 Aug 03
Moves: 54533

25 Sep 05

1 edit

Originally posted by Freddie2004
They always count....[b]always.[/b]

there are many positions where more than fifty moves are needed to FORCE a checkmate in the quickest possible way.

there is debate about how these positions should be handled ... both sides to the debate have a good case.

Natural Science

blunderer of pawns

Rhode (not an)Island

Joined: 17 Apr 04
Moves: 24785

25 Sep 05

Originally posted by flexmore
there are many positions where more than fifty moves are needed to FORCE a checkmate in the quickest possible way.

there is debate about how these positions should be handled ... both sides to the debate have a good case.

Well, I think the spirit of the rule has to be considered. It is meant as an arbitrary way of ending a drawn position where one of the two sides is for some reason refusing to oblige the draw. Or, if someone has a checkmate but clearly does not know what he is doing. It should not be invoked in situations where it can be demonstarted that a checkmate exists, and that it is necessary to breach the 50-move rule to achieve it. Just one patzer's opinion.

XanthosNZ

Cancerous Bus Crash

p^2.sin(phi)

Joined: 06 Sep 04
Moves: 25076

26 Sep 05

Originally posted by flexmore
there are many positions where more than fifty moves are needed to FORCE a checkmate in the quickest possible way.

there is debate about how these positions should be handled ... both sides to the debate have a good case.

Except that as it stands right now the rule is a hard 50 moves with no exceptions. At one point there were certain material combinations where it was ignored. This is no longer the case under FIDE rules.

Starryknight14

Joined: 16 Jun 05
Moves: 24582

26 Sep 05

there is no position possible that requires more than 50 moves to force mate. the hardest is with king, knight and bishop against king and it doesnt require 50 moves regardless of where you set up the pieces...

XanthosNZ

Cancerous Bus Crash

p^2.sin(phi)

Joined: 06 Sep 04
Moves: 25076

26 Sep 05

3 edits

Originally posted by Starryknight14
there is no position possible that requires more than 50 moves to force mate. the hardest is with king, knight and bishop against king and it doesnt require 50 moves regardless of where you set up the pieces...

Bzzt

White to move and mate in 65 with 1. Bf5 (every other move draws).

And you wanted to be an elitist. 😠

Others are known. KNNKP can take up to 115 moves and can contain periods of 50 moves with no pawn moves under optimal play.
Also one I didn't know but found out about recently was KRP(rook pawn on original square (a/h2)) vs. KP(blockading the other pawn)B(opposite colour to the opponent's pawn).

Ponderable

chemist

Linkenheim

Joined: 22 Apr 05
Moves: 670011

26 Sep 05

As a very mediocre player I suggest that the rule is the same as the stalemate. There are situations in which one has clearly the advantage, but a stalemate is it. Such arte the rules. IF a checkmate can't be raeched under 50 moves, you just had bad luck.

Starryknight14

Joined: 16 Jun 05
Moves: 24582

26 Sep 05

1 edit

yes xanthos but in your game it is a draw with correct defense. what was discussed was forced mate... Learn how to read Moran.

Natural Science

blunderer of pawns

Rhode (not an)Island

Joined: 17 Apr 04
Moves: 24785

26 Sep 05

1 edit

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XanthosNZ

Cancerous Bus Crash

p^2.sin(phi)

Joined: 06 Sep 04
Moves: 25076

27 Sep 05

Originally posted by Starryknight14
yes xanthos but in your game it is a draw with correct defense. what was discussed was forced mate... Learn how to read Moran.

You're an idiot. The position I posted is a forced mate in 65.
That means that if both white and black play the best move the entire time it will be 65 moves until white mates black.

Marinkatomb

wotagr8game

tbc

Joined: 18 Feb 04
Moves: 61941

27 Sep 05

Originally posted by flexmore
there are many positions where more than fifty moves are needed to FORCE a checkmate in the quickest possible way.

Got an example by any chance? I've never seen a case like that, though i'd like to 🙂

XanthosNZ

Cancerous Bus Crash

p^2.sin(phi)

Joined: 06 Sep 04
Moves: 25076

27 Sep 05

1 edit

Originally posted by marinakatomb
Got an example by any chance? I've never seen a case like that, though i'd like to 🙂

Read the thread.

Here's the forced mate for the position I gave.

1. Bf5 Rh4 2. Bd3 Rf4 3. Be4+ Ka7 4. Bc6 Rg4 5. Kc7 Rg7+ 6. Bd7 Rg6 7. Be6 Rg7+ 8. Kc6 Rg1 9. Ra2+ Kb8 10. Rb2+ Ka8 11. Bf5 Rc1+ 12. Kb6 Rc3 13. Rb1 Kb8 14. Rb4 Ra3 15. Bd7 Ra2 16. Rh4 Rb2+ 17. Bb5 Rc2 18. Bc4 Rb2+ 19. Kc6 Rc2 20. Rh8+ Ka7 21. Rh7+ Kb8 22. Rb7+ Ka8 23. Rb4 Rg2 24. Bd3 Rg3 25. Rd4 Rf3 26. Bc4 Rh3 27. Rd8+ Ka7 28. Bd5 Rh2 29. Rd7+ Kb8 30. Rb7+ Ka8 31. Rb1 Rc2+ 32. Kb6+ Kb8 33. Be6 Rd2 34. Kc6+ Ka7 35. Ra1+ Kb8 36. Bd5 Rh2 37. Rb1+ Ka7 38. Be4 Rh6+ 39. Kc5 Rb6 40. Rf1 Ra6 41. Rf8 Ra5+ 42. Kc6 Rg5 43. Rf7+ Ka6 44. Bd5 Ka5 45. Kc5 Rg6 46. Rf2 Rg4 47. Rb2 Rh4 48. Rb7 Rh6 49. Bf7 Rf6 50. Bc4 Rf5+ 1/2-1/2 via 50 move rule.

The mate would continue:
51. Bd5 Rf6 52. Rb5+ Ka6 53. Rb3 Ka7 54. Rb7+ Ka6 55. Re7 Rf5 56. Re8 Rxd5+ 57. Kxd5 Kb6 58. Re7 Kb5 59. Rb7+ Ka6 60. Rb4 Ka5 61. Kc5 Ka6 62. Kc6 Ka7 63. Ra4+ Kb8 64. Ra3 Kc8 65. Ra8# 1-0