Material Handicap Tournament

A queen handicap basically can't be overcome unless the other player blunders their queen or multiple pieces. No, I wouldn't find a win like that very glorious.

A pawn up is huge. If everything else is equal, it can be a winning advantage. You have to respect the pawns.

Trev's point, "a 400 points gap is a lot different between a 1200 and 1600 rating and a 1600 and 2000 ratings," is a good one. I think the handicaps I proposed are probably pretty close to reality for high rated players (they are based on master play), but might not be for us. The difference in the two gaps mentioned might not be much of an issue though as it doesn't look like there's many higher rated players interested.


I would be willing to go with Thomaster's suggestion - "Goliath, looses one point for every 100 points difference in rating. Goliath can choose which pieces he drops.

(pawn = 1, knight/bishop = 3, rook = 5, queen = 9)."

- if we make it 2-game matches like in duels (dropping draw odds).

Originally posted by trev33
d it's why 2 of the final 3 players were around 1500 (would've been 3 if i had put more effort into my game i think, no offence) [/b]

If you're referring to our game, you're correct and the only person you'd be offending is yourself...

Originally posted by Jasen777
If you're referring to our game, you're correct and the only person you'd be offending is yourself...

i was but in a way i was glad i got to see you play against another 1500ish people. i think it proves my point about the rating differences in this tourney.

i know you got your stats from masters games but me playing a 1200 person is so much different from me playing a 2000 person is so different it can't even be called the game game. that's why i think we need to adjust the number of points given per rating gap between the higher and lower players.

same as if it was masters who were playing, your stats would be true. go down a little in class the greater handicap needed, a little more rating gap....a little more handicap. you know what i mean.

i think if you played this with a 100 points gap per 1 point handicap you will get the same results as my tournament where the 1500ish players were dominant.

if i played you two game a knight up, i wouldn't be shocked if it finished 1-1. but if i played a 1300 a knight down i would at least want 1 game, would fancy myself to maybe nick a draw or win in the other as well.

you can always change the second round to a one game shot out based on the results from round 1 if you need to. even tweak with the handicap a little.


edit: once we've got the details i'll pm everyone who was in my tourney, i'm sure we'll get a nice spread of ratings.

Originally posted by trev33
same as if it was masters who were playing, your stats would be true. go down a little in class the greater handicap needed, a little more rating gap....a little more handicap. you know what i mean.[/b]

It'd be something like this...


"David's" rating - "Goliath's plus in rating points to give up a material point"

2000 - 200
1900 - 190
1800 - 180
1700 - 170
1600 - 160
1500 - 150
1400 - 140
1300 - 130
1200 - 120
1100 - 110
1000 - 100

That is, a Goliath playing a 2000 David will have to give up a material point for every 200 he is higher, but a Goliath playing a 1000 David will have to give up a material point for every 100 he is higher.

A 1500 playing a 1000 would have to give up 5 pawn equivalents, but a 2000 playing a 1500 would only have to give up 3.33 pawn equivalents.

What do you think of that?

Originally posted by Jasen777
It'd be something like this...


"David's" rating - "Goliath's plus in rating points to give up a material point"

2000 - 200
1900 - 190
1800 - 180
1700 - 170
1600 - 160
1500 - 150
1400 - 140
1300 - 130
1200 - 120
1100 - 110
1000 - 100

That is, a Goliath playing a 2000 David will have to give up a material point for every 200 he is highe ...[text shortened]... ng a 1500 would only have to give up 3.33 pawn equivalents.

What do you think of that?

Let's say we would play.
Our tournament entry ratings are 1903 and 1519.
(1903-1519)/(1519/10) =~ 2,52 =~ 3 points
Goliath plays white.

What if it's a draw?
Does the tournament start with 16 or 32 players?

Originally posted by Jasen777
It'd be something like this...


"David's" rating - "Goliath's plus in rating points to give up a material point"

2000 - 200
1900 - 190
1800 - 180
1700 - 170
1600 - 160
1500 - 150
1400 - 140
1300 - 130
1200 - 120
1100 - 110
1000 - 100

That is, a Goliath playing a 2000 David will have to give up a material point for every 200 he is highe ...[text shortened]... ng a 1500 would only have to give up 3.33 pawn equivalents.

What do you think of that?

hmm, i honestly think 200 points is too much. what happens if we play? there's about a 300 points gap. the higher you go up the better a 100 points becomes, a much bigger gap between 1800 and 1900 than here is between 1300 and 1400 for example.

i honestly think 100 above 1500 is best and 75 below.

looking at it from a if i was playing perspective.

with my handicap i would have a 4 point deficit to a 1300 person and a 3 point advantage against a 1900 person. for me that's perfect 50/50 odds.

Let's just stick with what I posted above. I think it's fair (and we are all just guessing anyways). The 200 won't ever come into play because we aren't going to have games were the 2000 is the David.

The size of the first round will be determined by how many people want to play.

It'll be like a duel - two games with each player playing white once. If it's a split decision both will advance, just like in duels.

Let's get a sign up list going.

Originally posted by Jasen777
Let's just stick with what I posted above. I think it's fair (and we are all just guessing anyways). The 200 won't ever come into play because we aren't going to have games were the 2000 is the David.

The size of the first round will be determined by how many people want to play.

It'll be like a duel - two games with each player playing white once ...[text shortened]... plit decision both will advance, just like in duels.

Let's get a sign up list going.

i'm not sure what you mean by your list tbh....if we played what would be the handicap? and if i played a 1300 what would be the handicap?

It works out to, you take the difference in rating and then divide by 1/10 of the David's rating.

You're at 1618, I'm at 1906.

1906-1618 = 288, 288/162 = 1.78 - I'm giving up 2 pawns.


You vs. a 1300,

1618-1300 = 318, 318/130 = 2.45, you'd be giving up two pawns, just beat the rounding.

1100 playing 1800, 700/110 = 6.3 pawns, equal to a rook and a pawn.

No way does that give any chance of a David win. Think I'll leave it to the bigger boys. Thanks anyway. 🙁

Originally posted by Kewpie
1100 playing 1800, 700/110 = 6.3 pawns, equal to a rook and a pawn.

No way does that give any chance of a David win. Think I'll leave it to the bigger boys. Thanks anyway. 🙁

that match up would probably never happen (you would most likely get 1500ish players like last time) but i tend to agree with you.

2 pawns down to a 1300 i would fancy my chances but 2 pawn up against a 1900 and i know i would struggle with black....even with white i would give the 1900 a slight edge.