Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Culture Forum

Culture Forum

  1. 03 May '09 21:57
    I'm having a bit of trouble with the third movement, stylistically. Any playing tips?
  2. 07 May '09 20:10
    Just bumping this thread. The question's still open.
  3. Subscriber AttilaTheHorn
    Erro Ergo Sum
    07 May '09 20:21
    >The question is one only a pianist can answer. I'm not a pianist, but I would be interested in hearing a pianist respond.
    >One of the things that makes Beethoven hard to play is his rapid, almost instant, jumping back and forth between two very different ideas that don't seem to relate to each other. He will give you a beautiful melody, then not complete it, and then go into a chaotic passage, or vice versa. Later of course he demonstrates that these ideas do relate to each other, and the challenge is convey all this right from the beginning.
    >Often it's difficult to say that such and such a melody is actually a theme. Often it's only a motive and in the end there is no theme at all, the first movement of the Third Symphony being a good example, and there are many examples in his piano sonatas.
  4. Standard member ChronicLeaky
    Don't Fear Me
    08 May '09 01:05
    Originally posted by scherzo
    I'm having a bit of trouble with the third movement, stylistically. Any playing tips?
    Get really, really into the bit where it switches to F# minor and the melody happens in the bass. That's a harmony joyride, and bear that fact in mind when you play that part. That said, it's been about five years since I played this and almost as long since I played the piano seriously, so any comments I have are likely to be rust-based.
  5. 08 May '09 20:21
    Originally posted by ChronicLeaky
    Get really, really into the bit where it switches to F# minor and the melody happens in the bass. That's a harmony joyride, and bear that fact in mind when you play that part. That said, it's been about five years since I played this and almost as long since I played the piano seriously, so any comments I have are likely to be rust-based.
    Can I have a measure number please? (there's a lot of places where it switches to F#m)
  6. Standard member ChronicLeaky
    Don't Fear Me
    08 May '09 21:13 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by scherzo
    Can I have a measure number please? (there's a lot of places where it switches to F#m)
    I don't have the music to hand, look at places with the following properties:

    1. The melody which you previously played in C#m with your right hand is played in F#m with your left
    2. Your right hand is playing the (suitably transposed) Alberti bass part

    Any of those (I think there's just one, up to any indicated repetitions of it).
  7. 09 May '09 00:10
    Originally posted by ChronicLeaky
    I don't have the music to hand, look at places with the following properties:

    1. The melody which you previously played in C#m with your right hand is played in F#m with your left
    2. Your right hand is playing the (suitably transposed) Alberti bass part

    Any of those (I think there's just one, up to any indicated repetitions of it).
    Aaah. Got it. Thanks.
  8. Standard member ChronicLeaky
    Don't Fear Me
    09 May '09 00:14 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by scherzo
    Aaah. Got it. Thanks.
    Excellent. IMO, half of the drama in the whole sonata lives on the line separating the first measure of that section from the previous one. Good luck, and post a recording...
  9. 09 May '09 16:14
    Originally posted by ChronicLeaky
    Excellent. IMO, half of the drama in the whole sonata lives on the line separating the first measure of that section from the previous one. Good luck, and post a recording...
    It'll take a while, but I will.
  10. Subscriber davaniel
    1.Nf3
    13 May '09 10:21
    Originally posted by scherzo
    I'm having a bit of trouble with the third movement, stylistically. Any playing tips?
    Hi scherzo, I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but I'll give it a go.
    It's also been quite a couple of years I that I played it, but after having just played it through, I think, although probably obvious, it would help the performance if you give attention to the structure of the piece as it seems to be a quite normal 'sonata'-structure with a (repeated) exposition with 2 themes, development section, recapitulation with a kind of extended coda that looks a bit like a concerto-cadenza.

    I'm not too sure what the 2nd theme would be, actually. Haven't looked at it thoroughly and I'm no theory expert, but I'm inclined to think the 2nd theme starts in bar 43, whereas the g# minor part from bar 21 onwards seems more of a 'fake theme'.
    You might also look at it another way, because obviously in the development section it's mainly material from this theme that's being used, although in bar 92-93 the rhythm is pretty much from the bar 43 theme.

    I think I would musically accentuate the key moments of the sonata structure, beside the obvious for instance bar 87 where the dominant g# in the base is reached, eventually leading to the recapitulation in bar 102. Or bar 158, which would in a concerto probably be the place where the orchestra, after the recapitulation, plays the introduction to the cadenza (bar 167) which ends in bar 190.

    In the lyrical passages, because of the very fast tempo, it may be important to have a very clear and bright sound, and maybe just light pedals as to avoid very woolly sound which might indeed work for a Schumann or Brahms sonata.

    Very open for discussion of course, but these are just my first impressions as I'm no expert on this piece. Hope you can get something out of it! Enjoy playing it, anyway. Love the second movement.