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Culture Forum

  1. Standard member Blackamp
    Death
    16 Jun '09 13:49
    genius?
    charlatan?
    just a noisy guy?
    neighbour from hell?
    all of the above?
    none of the above?

    one thing i'm fairly certain of, Venereology isn't music (?!) to play chess to.
  2. 16 Jun '09 14:58 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Blackamp
    genius?
    charlatan?
    just a noisy guy?
    neighbour from hell?
    all of the above?
    none of the above?

    one thing i'm fairly certain of, Venereology isn't music (?!) to play chess to.
    Merzbow is a project that I'd heard of but never checked out. If the clip on Myspace is representative then I'd say that it's about "energy". Hopefully there's more to it than what was available on that clip. If it isn't representative, can you point me toward something that is?

    Personally, I like my "noise music" on the "intellectual" side rather than the "energy" side. For example, I really like a lot of what I've heard from Nmperign. Check out "We Devote Every Effort...Part One". It's toward the bottom of this page: http://bhobrainey.net/music. I don't have the album, but from the first 7 - 10 minutes, it seems representative. With music like this, you have to have the patience to stick with it to get some sense of scale. Perhaps the most interesting part is that all of the sound is generated by one guy playing the trumpet and another playing saxophone. Check it out.
  3. 16 Jun '09 16:30
    Just a noisy guy. Never really understood his music.
  4. Standard member Blackamp
    Death
    17 Jun '09 13:08 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Merzbow is a project that I'd heard of but never checked out. If the clip on Myspace is representative then I'd say that it's about "energy". Hopefully there's more to it than what was available on that clip. If it isn't representative, can you point me toward something that is?

    Personally, I like my "noise music" on the "intellectual" side rather tha ed by one guy playing the trumpet and another playing saxophone. Check it out.
    liked that nmperign track, thanks.

    i don't know if there's anything that could be called 'representative' or Merzbow, as he's released over 200 albums. plenty of stuff on youtube, including this, which is a lot like some other stuff of his that i've heard:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbBBczzDeCA

    this next one is on the Venerealogy album that i mentioned:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJj-eMIulZY&feature=related

    BTW, you might like this: Death Cube K - Thanatopsis:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTl9qZPgPq8
  5. 18 Jun '09 22:33 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by Blackamp
    liked that nmperign track, thanks.

    i don't know if there's anything that could be called 'representative' or Merzbow, as he's released over 200 albums. plenty of stuff on youtube, including this, which is a lot like some other stuff of his that i've heard:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbBBczzDeCA

    this next one is on the Venerealogy album t ...[text shortened]... might like this: Death Cube K - Thanatopsis:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTl9qZPgPq8
    Well, I'm still not sold on Merzbow. I'm not sure why, but I feel like his work, at least what I've heard thus far, seems to lack the depth of others I've heard.

    Buckethead is another one that I'd heard of but had never listened to. I found that track more compelling than the Merzbow tracks, but much of it was "too guitar-like" for my tastes. I'd much rather listen to someone like Keith Rowe where'd you'd likely never know it was a guitar if you weren't told. Have you listened to much AMM?

    BTW, what's your take on Merzbow? I don't think you really said.
  6. Standard member Blackamp
    Death
    20 Jun '09 10:36
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Well, I'm still not sold on Merzbow. I'm not sure why, but I feel like his work, at least what I've heard thus far, seems to lack the depth of others I've heard.

    Buckethead is another one that I'd heard of but had never listened to. I found that track more compelling than the Merzbow tracks, but much of it was "too guitar-like" for my tastes. I'd muc ...[text shortened]... ed to much AMM?

    BTW, what's your take on Merzbow? I don't think you really said.
    haven't listened to any AMM, though they've been around for donkeys' years. i first got interested in noise from listening to Metal Machine Music.

    as for Merzbow, i guess he is doing something that needed to be done by somebody - he is pushing outward in a certain direction, and i think that kind of exploration is worthwhile for its own sake. sometimes i find it relaxing, sometimes i find serendipitous moments amongst the static (though rarely in the same place twice) - as with MMM - and sometimes i just can't listen to it. in an odd way i think his work is similar in concept to Cage's silences - opposites in a yin-yang kind of way.
  7. 20 Jun '09 21:12
    Originally posted by Blackamp
    haven't listened to any AMM, though they've been around for donkeys' years. i first got interested in noise from listening to Metal Machine Music.

    as for Merzbow, i guess he is doing something that needed to be done by somebody - he is pushing outward in a certain direction, and i think that kind of exploration is worthwhile for its own sake. sometimes ...[text shortened]... nk his work is similar in concept to Cage's silences - opposites in a yin-yang kind of way.
    Lou Reed commented about MMM: "Well, anyone who gets to side four is dumber than I am."
  8. 21 Jun '09 02:21 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Blackamp
    haven't listened to any AMM, though they've been around for donkeys' years. i first got interested in noise from listening to Metal Machine Music.

    as for Merzbow, i guess he is doing something that needed to be done by somebody - he is pushing outward in a certain direction, and i think that kind of exploration is worthwhile for its own sake. sometimes nk his work is similar in concept to Cage's silences - opposites in a yin-yang kind of way.
    Well, Cage was a profoundly deep thinker. I don't get that sense at all about Merzbow, but then it's sometimes difficult to draw definitive conclusions just from listening to clips. I do however get that sense from AMM who have a depth I find lacking in Merzbow.

    You should at least check out "The Crypt" which is a fine example of their early more raucous playing. I think the things you said you find intriguing about Merzbow can be found here and likely done better. Here's an interesting review I found:

    http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/on_second_thought/amm-the-crypt.htm

    It reads in part:
    "To ears informed by the twenty-first century, it’s the uncanny feeling of listening to three and a half decades of experimental music history as delivered in a chillingly prescient sort of reverse premonition. For somehow, in the middle of the 1960s, five slightly bookworm-looking gents from England managed to channel the searing distortion flows of early Merzbow cassettes nearly two decades ahead of schedule. In the very same sessions, they improbably pulled from the future the meditative rumbling-in-the-distance of Francisco Lopez and Bernhard Gunter, the fuzz-filled bubbling of the Dead C’s lo-fi dronescapes, and the discordant chime of early Sonic Youth – not to mention the scrabbling of a thousand later improv records. It’s a little unnerving that the only records that seem to accurately describe the brave new soundworld harnessed on The Crypt came into being well after its creation."
  9. Standard member Blackamp
    Death
    22 Jun '09 11:35 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Well, Cage was a profoundly deep thinker. I don't get that sense at all about Merzbow, but then it's sometimes difficult to draw definitive conclusions just from listening to clips. I do however get that sense from AMM who have a depth I find lacking in Merzbow.

    You should at least check out "The Crypt" which is a fine example of their early more rauc brave new soundworld harnessed on The Crypt came into being well after its creation."
    someone who has produced over 200 albums may very well not be putting a great deal of deep thought into each. i guess there are two, perhaps equally valid, ways of listening to stuff like this. one is to listen to it as art, and the other is just to listen for the sake of the sounds are recorded. i sometimes like to tune the radio and just listen to the white noise, and it is in the latter sense that i do so. i think Merzbow mainly interests me on that level. On the art level, as i said, i think perhaps the main value lies in his push boundaries in a particular direction. you don't know what's out there unless you go exploring. i don't know if there's anything out where he's looking, but i think the exploration has value in itself. also, as an artist, he may be operating almost wholly on an intuitive level, not consciously thinking too much about what he's doing.
    in terms of listening preference, though, i'm probably with you in liking to see some evidence of thought being put into the music. forgive me if i've misread you on that.
  10. Standard member Blackamp
    Death
    22 Jun '09 18:29
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Lou Reed commented about MMM: "Well, anyone who gets to side four is dumber than I am."
    yes, and he was pissed off at his record company at the time too (RCA i think) and might have done it to spite them.

    i think his comments may apply to anyone taking it seriously as art, but as noise goes it's very textured and interesting - to me, anyway.
  11. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    22 Jun '09 18:54
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Lou Reed commented about MMM: "Well, anyone who gets to side four is dumber than I am."
    Being insulted is just part of being a Lou Reed fan.
  12. 23 Jun '09 19:54
    Originally posted by Blackamp
    yes, and he was pissed off at his record company at the time too (RCA i think) and might have done it to spite them.

    i think his comments may apply to anyone taking it seriously as art, but as noise goes it's very textured and interesting - to me, anyway.
    Well, I did listen to it, although I didn't reach side four. I suppose what makes music interesting to me, a lot of the time, is contrast, and there is none in MMM - it's just noise. Although it is a somewhat influential record, I suppose.
  13. Standard member Blackamp
    Death
    23 Jun '09 23:05
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Well, I did listen to it, although I didn't reach side four. I suppose what makes music interesting to me, a lot of the time, is contrast, and there is none in MMM - it's just noise. Although it is a somewhat influential record, I suppose.
    i think it helps if you approach it in much the same way as gazing up at the sky and letting your mind find faces and other patterns in the clouds or the constellations. but it is something i have to be in the mood for, and most of the time i prefer slightly more conventional music with structure, contrast etc.
  14. 24 Jun '09 01:02 / 3 edits
    Here's video of Trio Sowari. They almost make MMM sound downright conventional in comparison. That said, I find this "noise" much more intriguing.

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2vizg_trio-sowari_creation

    Here's the lineup:
    Phil Durrant - software sampler/synth/treatments

    Burkhard Beins - percussion/objects

    Bertrand Denzler - tenor saxophone

    I only have the first Trio Sowari album, but have several with Durrant and several with Beins. I really like everything I've heard with Beins on it.

    I'd be interested in hearing people's thoughts on this one.

    I find music like this is best listened to on a decent stereo system in a dark room with a low noise floor and the mind "still".