Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Culture Forum

Culture Forum

  1. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    09 Jan '09 04:49
    Has anybody seen this film?
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2008/nov/21/waltz-with-bashir-folman

    I'm awaiting it impatiently. Might have to buy it, though ...

    Any other Israeli films worth watching, while we're at it?
  2. 17 Jan '09 19:31
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Has anybody seen this film?
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2008/nov/21/waltz-with-bashir-folman

    I'm awaiting it impatiently. Might have to buy it, though ...

    Any other Israeli films worth watching, while we're at it?
    dont you just hate it when nobody goes for your thread?
  3. Standard member rbmorris
    Vampyroteuthis
    17 Jan '09 23:47
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Has anybody seen this film?
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2008/nov/21/waltz-with-bashir-folman

    I'm awaiting it impatiently. Might have to buy it, though ...

    Any other Israeli films worth watching, while we're at it?
    Have not seen or heard of that film, but definitely seems worth a look.

    Have you seen 'Persepolis'? Really fantastic.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persepolis_(film)
  4. Standard member rbmorris
    Vampyroteuthis
    18 Jan '09 18:22
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    Let me know what you think of Persepolis. I really liked it. It's a movie I'd sort of like to own.
  5. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    18 Jan '09 18:30
    Originally posted by rbmorris
    Let me know what you think of Persepolis. I really liked it. It's a movie I'd sort of like to own.
    I liked it a lot (and expected not to, actually). It's very well made, well paced and thought-provoking.

    I wouldn't say its a movie that gains a lot with additional viewings, though. At least to me it didn't. The movie played very well with my ignorance of the day-to-day life of an Iranian family during that time. This obviously doesn't have the same effect over repeated viewings.
  6. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    19 Jan '09 06:53
    Originally posted by rbmorris
    Have not seen or heard of that film, but definitely seems worth a look.

    Have you seen 'Persepolis'? Really fantastic.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persepolis_(film)
    I read the graphic novel (excellent); I didn't know there was a film, but I'll be sure to look out for it.

    Running over four volumes, the novel probably explains everything that the film would have had to leave out.
  7. Standard member rbmorris
    Vampyroteuthis
    19 Jan '09 08:10 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Palynka
    I liked it a lot (and expected not to, actually). It's very well made, well paced and thought-provoking.

    I wouldn't say its a movie that gains a lot with additional viewings, though. At least to me it didn't. The movie played very well with my ignorance of the day-to-day life of an Iranian family during that time. This obviously doesn't have the same effect over repeated viewings.
    A large part of the appeal for me was the illustrations. I agree, I might not get much more out of the story after multiple viewings.

    After reading BDN's response, I may buy the GN instead.

    Speaking of graphic novels, I hope at least one of you has read Jimmy Corrigan: "Smartest Kid On Earth", by Chris Ware. Quite possibly my all-time fav. Just so bleak and beautiful with fantastic illustrations.
  8. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    19 Jan '09 11:09
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    I recently read the whole of "Lost Girls" (Alan Moore / Melinda Gebbie). I can't recommend it too highly (wormwood might - still - disagree).

    And they got married! Aren't they cool?
    http://journal.neilgaiman.com/search/label/Alan%20and%20Melinda%27s%20wedding

    I'm planning on rereading 'From Hell' one of these days. Really, you should too.
  9. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    19 Jan '09 11:48
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    It has been done to death by the media, but if you can abstract from it and like film-noir, the Sin City series are still outstanding.

    But you know me. I like the unpopularly popular recommendations.
  10. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    19 Jan '09 13:04
    Originally posted by Palynka

    But you know me. I like the unpopularly popular recommendations.
    Such as ... ?
  11. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    19 Jan '09 13:36
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Such as ... ?
    Personal attack!
  12. 22 Jan '09 16:42
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Has anybody seen this film?
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2008/nov/21/waltz-with-bashir-folman

    I'm awaiting it impatiently. Might have to buy it, though ...

    Any other Israeli films worth watching, while we're at it?
    I've seen it. Actually a pretty good film, but from a historic perspective, it leaves some things to be desired.

    You can confront me via PM if you want to know about that though. This isn't the Debates forum.

    I also recommend Paradise Now. Actually a Palestinian director, cast, and story, but it's the same conflict.
  13. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    23 Jan '09 07:16 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by scherzo
    I've seen it. Actually a pretty good film, but from a historic perspective, it leaves some things to be desired.

    You can confront me via PM if you want to know about that though. This isn't the Debates forum.

    I also recommend Paradise Now. Actually a Palestinian director, cast, and story, but it's the same conflict.
    I don't particularly want to confront you by PM or any other means. I would like to read your critique of this film, especially considering your views. Don't hold back!

    My main interest in seeing this film (which I haven't got hold of yet) is that it's a conscious attempt by an Israeli veteran to overcome the 'collective amnesia' that (Jewish) Israelis suffer from. For that reason it's bound to be very different from a Palestinian film -- from the Israeli viewpoint, it simply isn't 'the same conflict'.
  14. 23 Jan '09 14:14
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    I don't particularly want to confront you by PM or any other means. I would like to read your critique of this film, especially considering your views. Don't hold back!

    My main interest in seeing this film (which I haven't got hold of yet) is that it's a conscious attempt by an Israeli veteran to overcome the 'collective amnesia' that (Jewish) Israe ...[text shortened]... a Palestinian film -- from the Israeli viewpoint, it simply isn't 'the same conflict'.
    All right.

    From a purely filmmaking perspective, Waltz with Bashir is a very innovative, creative film. Whether you're Palestinian, Israeli, or anything else, you should at least consider seeing it.

    The historical accuracy is somewhat less accurate. While the film does correctly portray the Lebanese fascists, in cahoots with Israeli military leaders like Sharon, as being the men and women behind the Sabra/Shatila massacres, it seems to absolve the IDF forces of any responsibility regarding said massacres.

    Now, when you take into account Israel, and the Phalange, the Phalange definitely comes off worse. A well-publicized story had an Israeli army officer by the name of Ben-Elizier walking through a Palestinian village in Lebanon that had been overrun by Phalangists. Ben-Elizier saw Palestinians being burned alive, dragged behind cars, etc. He then came across two teenage Phalangist girls and their father, Charmount. Charmount told Ben-Elizier that the girls were very helpful in the overtaking of the village, and Ben-Elizier asked skeptically what they were able to accomplish. One girl took out a ziplock bag of severed fingers, and Charmount explained she took a finger as a trophy from each Palestinian she's killed. Ben-Elizier was disgusted. The other girl then took out a bag of earlobes, at which point a terrified and revokted Ben-Elizier fled. So when you compare the Phalangists to the Israelis, you know which one is more evil.

    However, the Israeli army knowingly assisted the Phalangists in the Sabra-Shatila massacres. They knew exactly what was going on; they had their orders from Ariel Sharon, who ordered the massacre. They surrounded the camp while the Phalange marched in, refused to let any Palestinians leave the camps, lit flares over the village by night so the Phalange could see whether it was a man or woman they were raping, radioed for reinforcements when necessary, etc. I don't think this film makes it clear that Israel was nearly as villainous here (everyone in the army who knew what was going on but refused to act ... which would have been about all of them) as the Phalangists, who actually did the killing. Furthermore, the film paints PLO guerrillas in Southern Lebanon as other villains, when in fact said guerrillas were generally far more peaceful and willing to compromise than either Israel or the Phalange.

    I believe the film is being released in theaters in most of the US on February 10 or so. It's rated R and it's a bit less than 2 hours.
  15. 28 Jan '09 00:48
    I founf it intriguiging on many levels. Enough so that I'd watch it again. The use of colors for example...