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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    17 Jun '09 01:54
    I don't claim to have the final word on Americas dysfunctional healthcare system, but here are 2 ideas that would help.

    1. Put price limits on perscription medications: Medications in America cost many times that in other countries, the idea that compitition between companies would lower prices is not working, laws need to be put in place to force drug companies to keep prices at affordable levels.

    2. Put limits on medical malpractice awards: I was against this idea at first, but resonable limits on legal malpractice awards would help to lower costs for everyone.

  2. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    17 Jun '09 02:04 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by bill718
    I don't claim to have the final word on Americas dysfunctional healthcare system, but here are 2 ideas that would help.

    1. Put price limits on perscription medications: Medications in America cost many times that in other countries, the idea that compitition between companies would lower prices is not working, laws need to be put in place to force drug co ...[text shortened]... ut resonable limits on legal malpractice awards would help to lower costs for everyone.

    Nah. Sorry. You're talking about taking an axe to the very roots of the American Dream here.
  3. 17 Jun '09 02:07
    Originally posted by bill718
    I don't claim to have the final word on Americas dysfunctional healthcare system, but here are 2 ideas that would help.

    1. Put price limits on perscription medications: Medications in America cost many times that in other countries, the idea that compitition between companies would lower prices is not working, laws need to be put in place to force drug co ...[text shortened]... ut resonable limits on legal malpractice awards would help to lower costs for everyone.

    Your talking about punishing corporate dollars that fund political purses. It will never happen. What will happen, more than likely, are wages for health care workers to be slashed in addition to government calling the shots for health care as it is rationed.
  4. Standard member Scriabin
    Done Asking
    17 Jun '09 02:07
    Originally posted by bill718
    I don't claim to have the final word on Americas dysfunctional healthcare system, but here are 2 ideas that would help.

    1. Put price limits on perscription medications: Medications in America cost many times that in other countries, the idea that compitition between companies would lower prices is not working, laws need to be put in place to force drug co ...[text shortened]... ut resonable limits on legal malpractice awards would help to lower costs for everyone.

    I like both ideas.

    But the root of the problem is tough to fix. How do we move away from fee for service based health care to one that limits care to what is truly necessary without the judgment of same being driven by non-medical, pecuniary considerations?
  5. 17 Jun '09 02:18
    Originally posted by bill718
    I don't claim to have the final word on Americas dysfunctional healthcare system, but here are 2 ideas that would help.

    1. Put price limits on perscription medications: Medications in America cost many times that in other countries, the idea that compitition between companies would lower prices is not working, laws need to be put in place to force drug co ...[text shortened]... ut resonable limits on legal malpractice awards would help to lower costs for everyone.

    Explain for me what is or why americas health care system is so dysfunctional.I keep reading this in post. We got the worst health care,yadda, yadda, yadda. What exactly do you find so bad about it? And ,why are people from other countries coming here for treatment if it is so bad?
  6. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    17 Jun '09 02:21
    Originally posted by bill718
    I don't claim to have the final word on Americas dysfunctional healthcare system, but here are 2 ideas that would help.

    1. Put price limits on perscription medications: Medications in America cost many times that in other countries, the idea that compitition between companies would lower prices is not working, laws need to be put in place to force drug co ...[text shortened]... ut resonable limits on legal malpractice awards would help to lower costs for everyone.

    Wow. I'm surprised by your second idea. Your idea, a key component in the wider platform known as "tort reform" (Google it) is a major conservative/Republican platform.

    Your first idea only works if the drug companies are profitable with your price cap. Otherwise, they obviously will simply not produce the drug. If you can figure out how and when to cap the drug price while maintaining profitability for the pharmaceuticals; well, good luck. I'm rooting for you.
  7. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    17 Jun '09 02:29 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    Explain for me what is or why americas health care system is so dysfunctional.I keep reading this in post. We got the worst health care,yadda, yadda, yadda. What exactly do you find so bad about it? And ,why are people from other countries coming here for treatment if it is so bad?
    It does seem odd; doesn't it? It's almost become a given as a starting point in any debate that the US healthcare system is a disaster.

    We spend too much on healthcare for what we get out of it; no doubt about it. The system can and should be changed to make some improvements in that regard and other regards.


    But, listening to this debate, you'd think that nothing like this ever happens in other countries

    http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=282c225e-cf2a-4c9d-a34d-35f03f0afa66

    http://www.biggovhealth.org/stories




    Oh; and to all those who love to rip the US healthcare system, good luck explaining this away:

    http://hospitals.webometrics.info/top1000.asp
  8. 17 Jun '09 11:11 / 4 edits
    Originally posted by sh76
    Wow. I'm surprised by your second idea. Your idea, a key component in the wider platform known as "tort reform" (Google it) is a major conservative/Republican platform.

    Your first idea only works if the drug companies are profitable with your price cap. Otherwise, they obviously will simply not produce the drug. If you can figure out how and when to cap the ...[text shortened]... ile maintaining profitability for the pharmaceuticals; well, good luck. I'm rooting for you.
    Torte reform? Not likely with a group of lawyers deciding things. More than likely they will take their troubles out on the medical staff. Its like Obama speaking before the AMA earlier. It looked like he was sweating bullets!! LOL. We all know that doctors make far too much money....that is except their own personal doctors who, no doubt, will be compensated accordingly. I am just wondering who will even go into medicine if they slash their salaries. I mean, these guys eat and breath what they do and never seem to be done with theiri training and are on call for several days straight etc. So who in their right mind would go into if not compensated accordingly? Perhaps there will be a few generous sould who simply want to "help" people, but more than likely they would go down to their local Salvation Army than spend their entire lives dedicated to a profession like this.

    Mark my words, torte reform will NEVER happen!!
  9. 17 Jun '09 11:30
    Originally posted by bill718
    I don't claim to have the final word on Americas dysfunctional healthcare system, but here are 2 ideas that would help.

    1. Put price limits on perscription medications: Medications in America cost many times that in other countries, the idea that compitition between companies would lower prices is not working, laws need to be put in place to force drug co ...[text shortened]... ut resonable limits on legal malpractice awards would help to lower costs for everyone.

    You are talking about fixing something that has lawyers, insurance companies, drug companies,and politicians dragging on the tit. No wonder it is screwed up. It is your ideas to fix it that gives some hope to the future. They may or may not work but by golly lets not give up!! Keep it up.
  10. 17 Jun '09 11:52
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    And ,why are people from other countries coming here for treatment if it is so bad?
    I don't think you understand what 'healthcare system' means. It is the system whereby the citizens are given a health service and not just how good the hospitals are. You can have a rotten heath care system and still have perfectly good hospitals.
    Here in South Africa, a lot of foreigners come for treatment because our hospitals are cheaper than most first world countries and better than most third world countries. However the majority of South Africans don't necessarily get access to good health care.
    There is also the issue of how much the Government and how much the citizens have to pay for treatment and what method they use to pay (cash, taxes, insurance etc).
  11. 17 Jun '09 11:59 / 4 edits
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    Explain for me what is or why americas health care system is so dysfunctional.I keep reading this in post. We got the worst health care,yadda, yadda, yadda. What exactly do you find so bad about it? And ,why are people from other countries coming here for treatment if it is so bad?
    there are three very different things involved here.

    1. America's healthcare PROVIDERS (the people, technology, and medications) -- which is generally considered to be extremely good.

    2. America's healthcare FINANCING (insurance, lawsuits) -- which is in need of serious reforms.

    3. America's healthcare LIFESTYLE (eating habits, exercise habits, etc) -- which is another big problem.
  12. Standard member MacSwain
    Who is John Galt?
    17 Jun '09 13:35 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    Explain for me what is or why americas health care system is so dysfunctional.I keep reading this in post. We got the worst health care,yadda, yadda, yadda. What exactly do you find so bad about it? And ,why are people from other countries coming here for treatment if it is so bad?
    I was made aware of something years ago and simply don’t understand why all Americans seem unaware.

    It is Federal Law: Anyone going to public hospital cannot be denied treatment of any sort based on his or her ability to pay. I am told each emergency room must have signage to this effect.

    Obviously, this is reason those who can pay (personally / insurance) pay loads more as charges must be set to recoup expenses incurred from those who can’t pay. This means all the “uninsured”, while not having insurance can, and do, receive same treatment as those who are insured.

    If I were in low-income range in US, I certainly would not purchase insurance with my meagre wages. I would do exactly as is being done now and in unlikely event I became ill I would go to local hospital and receive free (to me) unlimited care.

    US already has socialised medicine better than Europe. Difference being, instead of government payment and control, the insurance company's policyholders are paying for those uninsured. The main difference is: There is no government agency telling anyone which treatments are unavailable to them and very small, if any, queues.
  13. Standard member MacSwain
    Who is John Galt?
    17 Jun '09 13:38 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by bill718
    I don't claim to have the final word on Americas dysfunctional healthcare system, but here are 2 ideas that would help.

    2. Put limits on medical malpractice awards: I was against this idea at first, but resonable limits on legal malpractice awards would help to lower costs for everyone.

    Founders based American law on English Common Law except in a glaring instance regarding litigation. The English rule is a rule controlling assessment of attorneys' fees arising out of litigation. The English rule provides that the party who loses in court pays the other party's attorney's fees. The rationale for the English rule is that a litigant (whether bringing a claim or defending a claim) is entitled to legal representation and, if successful, should not be left out of pocket by reason of his own legal fees.

    It should be borne in mind that in virtually all English civil litigation damages are merely compensatory.

    When the litigant faces monetary losses, this alone would prevent the “fishing trip” or “blackmail” case, where, at present, your defendant faces attorney fees’ more costly than simply paying to make the problem “go away.

    Your courts would see their calendars clear immediately due to the lack of specious cases.
  14. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    17 Jun '09 15:43
    Originally posted by MacSwain


    If I were in low-income range in US, I certainly would not purchase insurance with my meagre wages. I would do exactly as is being done now and in unlikely event I became ill I would go to local hospital and receive free (to me) unlimited care.
    I basically agree with everything you said except I'd like to point out that if you have "low" income, you don't need to do that. You can get Medicaid, which is free government sponsored health insurance.

    Your scenario is really for people with lower middle class income; people who make too much to get Medicaid (and other state programs that supplement it) but not enough to comfortably pay for health insurance.

    The only problem with that scenario is that if you are hospitalized, you'll get the treatment, but later you'll get an enormous bill and likely be forced into bankruptcy (which isn't the end of the World either, by the way). People with lower middle class income who don't have health insurance are gambling that they won't get really sick. If they do, they're usually forced into bankruptcy.

    There are some states, like New York, that have supplemental programs that allow even lower middle class income people can get free or very cheap health insurance.

    http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/fhplus/

    http://www.nyhealth.gov/nysdoh/chplus/

    In states like this, if you don't have insurance it's because you consciously avoided buying it even though you can afford it.

    The only major problem I see in the US healthcare system is the bureaucratic waste that comes from having so many huge insurance companies and the fact that doctors often own interest in labs that they refer patients too, which results in conflicts of interest that encourage waste and problems similar to that.

    I don't know exactly what the solution is. But I don't want any part of a system that's going to result in 4 month waiting periods for MRIs and in some bureaucrat deciding which procedure I can and can't have.
  15. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    17 Jun '09 15:46
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    You can have a rotten heath care system and still have perfectly good hospitals.
    Do you think there's any connection between the fact that US healthcare is mostly privatized and the fact that on the list I cited above, the top 24 hospitals in the World are ALL in the United States? Or, is it just a coincidence?