5 Things I Saw as a 9/11 First Responder

Originally posted by Wajoma
But you realise that you're talking about taking money from other professions, so it is relevant. Do you realise that the abilty to care for other people is dibilitated by moving the money away from them. You do realise that don't you?

You do realise that when the bill was first introduced thousands of wallets and purses snapped shut, no need to donate i ...[text shortened]... ngs right.

Or do you think the goobermint pays for things by............


.......magic?

He just doesn't get it, or doesn't care that governments spend the money they either confiscate from taxpayers, or counterfeit via the arrangement between the Fed and Treasury.

Originally posted by Wajoma

Who precisely are these 'scum' that said (double quotes here) ""the first responders don't deserve help"".

You are quoting someone here right? That is what the quotation marks denote, so who are you quoting and can you direct us to that post.

You need to respond to this z, don't worry about how guvamint charity kills true benevolence, I can see why you don't want to discuss that, but this quote that you included, where is it from? who said it?

Originally posted by normbenign
So cops, who already have generous life insurance and disability insurance as part of their employment ought to get additional? But the janitors and waitresses don't get squat?

do you understand if clauses? do you read what i write before going on rants? what about the janitors and waitresses ? if they are first responders they should get covered by the bill.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
do you understand if clauses? do you read what i write before going on rants? what about the janitors and waitresses ? if they are first responders they should get covered by the bill.

I've been a 'first responder' in a couple of incidents I can remember where I saved the life of someone who was being criminally assaulted. In neither case did any harm come to me as a result. Most Americans believe that if possible they would assist their fellows in desperate situations disregarding personal danger.

You appear to want to make a single event to have different rules than what apply to disasters that happen regularly everwhere. It is impossible and not practical to make everyone equal after tragic events, either natural or man made. You want to do this while not even being a US taxpayer, from whom all government benevolence comes.

Originally posted by normbenign
I've been a 'first responder' in a couple of incidents I can remember where I saved the life of someone who was being criminally assaulted. In neither case did any harm come to me as a result. Most Americans believe that if possible they would assist their fellows in desperate situations disregarding personal danger.

You appear to want to make a sing ...[text shortened]... want to do this while not even being a US taxpayer, from whom all government benevolence comes.

"Most Americans believe that if possible they would assist their fellows disregarding personal danger."

these guys did. disregarding personal danger. while being untrained.

"It is impossible "
no it's not.

"not practical"
impractical to save someone's life after he thought it was very practical to do everything possible to save a life? impractical? do you wonder if i included you on the list of scum i don't want to debate this with?


"You want to do this while not even being a US taxpayer"
that is why i made the thread, so that us taxpayers would decide to give 1 cent out of their taxes towards these heroes (there is no better epithet)

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
"Most Americans believe that if possible they would assist their fellows disregarding personal danger."

these guys did. disregarding personal danger. while being untrained.

"It is impossible "
no it's not.

"not practical"
impractical to save someone's life after he thought it was very practical to do everything possible to save a life? impracti ...[text shortened]... ould decide to give 1 cent out of their taxes towards these heroes (there is no better epithet)

Norm: "It is impossible "
zahalanzi: "no it's not."
Wajoma: "Yes, it is."

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
"Most Americans believe that if possible they would assist their fellows disregarding personal danger."

these guys did. disregarding personal danger. while being untrained.

"It is impossible "
no it's not.

"not practical"
impractical to save someone's life after he thought it was very practical to do everything possible to save a life? impracti ...[text shortened]... ould decide to give 1 cent out of their taxes towards these heroes (there is no better epithet)

Of course you don't want to debate issues with people who cite facts. Facts like the US is trillions of $ in debt, and simply can't afford a new welfare program, as well as some of the old ones.

It is not possible to add small benefits willy nilly. Each ought to be considered in comparison to others. Would it be better to discontinue some other welfare program which is lower priority?

Originally posted by normbenign
Of course you don't want to debate issues with people who cite facts. Facts like the US is trillions of $ in debt, and simply can't afford a new welfare program, as well as some of the old ones.

It is not possible to add small benefits willy nilly. Each ought to be considered in comparison to others. Would it be better to discontinue some other welfare program which is lower priority?

"Facts like the US is trillions of $ in debt"
every country is in debt. being in debt means nothing.

"simply can't afford a new welfare program"
when you have a larger military budget than the next 15 or so countries combined, you can afford anything.

how about you google all the tax cuts the uber rich get and see if you can't squeeze a couple hundred millions for healthcare.

how about you google all the benefits big companies got that bleed money from your budget, along with the huge bribes your congressmen get to see those companies' interests are protected


"small benefits"
saving someone's life is small benefit? please go post this on the firefighters and police websites of your town, along with your name and address.

so they know it's a small benefit to save you. which in your case is actually true.

not the case of a first responder who is ten times the man you are.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
[b]"Facts like the US is trillions of $ in debt"
every country is in debt. being in debt means nothing.

The notion that debt means nothing is most debilitating to poor people trying to become less poor. Savings even including interest earnings don't keep up with the ravages of inflation driven by rampant government debt.

Originally posted by normbenign
Of course you don't want to debate issues with people who cite facts. Facts like the US is trillions of $ in debt, and simply can't afford a new welfare program, as well as some of the old ones.

It is not possible to add small benefits willy nilly. Each ought to be considered in comparison to others. Would it be better to discontinue some other welfare program which is lower priority?

I did a quick check and you could save a fortune. The following is copy and pasted from a spreadsheet calculation based on figures I found on Wikipedia.

NHS body,,,,,,Budget(£billion),,,Population(million),,,,,price per head(£ )
England,,,,,,,,,,,,,,108.9,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,53.012,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,£2054.25
Scotland,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,9.38,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,5.295,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,£1771.48
Wales,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,5.3,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,3.063,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,£1730.32
NI,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,3.9,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,1.811,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,£2153.50
Total,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,127.48,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,63.181,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,£2017.69

Translating that to the U.S. the running, as opposed to set up, costs of an NHS clone (assuming an exchange rate of £1 = $1.65 courtesy of the Financial Times, and the US populaton is 318,770,000) gives a budget of $1.047 Trillion. Currently you spend $8608 per capita on health equating to $2.7 Trillion. So, by cutting out the insurance companies you could get a saving per person of over $5,000 per year. There's scope to increase taxes and still leave people better off on average, you could actually reduce your debt this way.

Relevant Wikipedia pages are:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_%28PPP%29_per_capita
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Kingdom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service

Originally posted by DeepThought
I did a quick check and you could save a fortune. The following is copy and pasted from a spreadsheet calculation based on figures I found on Wikipedia.

NHS body,,,,,,Budget(£billion),,,Population(million),,,,,price per head(£ )
England,,,,,,,,,,,,,,108.9,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,53.012,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,£2054.25
Scotland,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,9.38,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ...[text shortened]... .org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Kingdom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service

Normbenign is aware of the figures - I have pointed them out repeatedly. He would just rather pay more for lower quality health care just so he can deny health care to a class of "undeserving" people.

Originally posted by DeepThought
I did a quick check and you could save a fortune. The following is copy and pasted from a spreadsheet calculation based on figures I found on Wikipedia.

NHS body,,,,,,Budget(£billion),,,Population(million),,,,,price per head(£ )
England,,,,,,,,,,,,,,108.9,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,53.012,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,£2054.25
Scotland,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,9.38,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ...[text shortened]... .org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Kingdom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service

Alas, facts and hard figures only get one so far in this forum. Anyway, the US can't even get its head around the metric system, so what hope is there in matters as complex as health care reform?

Still, little by little, reform is happening. It kind of has to, on account of the status quo (i.e. forking gobs of cash over to private insurance companies) getting too expensive.

Originally posted by DeepThought
I did a quick check and you could save a fortune. The following is copy and pasted from a spreadsheet calculation based on figures I found on Wikipedia.

NHS body,,,,,,Budget(£billion),,,Population(million),,,,,price per head(£ )
England,,,,,,,,,,,,,,108.9,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,53.012,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,£2054.25
Scotland,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,9.38,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ...[text shortened]... .org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Kingdom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service

Is that figure per head a total? i.e. does it include what people have to spend personally to get off the public waiting list when in pain or suffering other life debilitating conditions.

It's common in NZ. Need a knee replacement? That's probably a year to wait for that.Pain get's too great? (and I can assure you it is a painful condition) can't afford to lose a year? don't want to postpone that once in a life time vacation? Break out the cheque book and go private.

Saves the goobermint some money and makes their stats look better in the process.

Originally posted by Wajoma
Is that figure per head a total? i.e. does it include what people have to spend personally to get off the public waiting list when in pain or suffering other life debilitating conditions.

It's common in NZ. Need a knee replacement? That's probably a year to wait for that.Pain get's too great? (and I can assure you it is a painful condition) can't afford ...[text shortened]... go private.

Saves the goobermint some money and makes their stats look better in the process.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_(PPP)_per_capita

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_(PPP)_per_capita

So those figures match Deep Thoughts?