Originally posted by StarrmanEver heard of the pygmies?
Not at all. There is nothing in the star wars films that is not believed to be true by some people, or has the potential for scientific realisation. It may be just a matter of time and research. Though the genre may be called science-'fiction', this name comes from a time when science was a lot more primitive, we had only just worked out how to build an ...[text shortened]... formidable opponents, especially in their own environment and would have kicked imperial butt 🙂
Never underestimate people 'cos they're small, especially when you have essentially "unarmed" opponents against guys with guns, wookies just make bigger targets.
MÅ¥HÅRM
Originally posted by MayharmSo let me get this straight:
Ah so you [b]did watch the film then 🙂 This is what I was looking for:
"assisted the Rebels in taking control of the base on Endor"
That's right, whether or not they were ewoks or wookies the stormies would've eventually toasted them, but the battle was actually won by the rebels being freed, an AT-ST being captured by one hero c ...[text shortened]... it too "conveniant".
None of that won the battle though, so what's the problem?
MÅ¥HÅRM[/b]
The semantics of whether or not the Ewoks "won" the battle deems us "nerds" but the idea of you knowing what an "AT-ST" is does not? I honestly had no idea what an "AT-ST" is and I am sure I have seen each of the triology about 10-15 times each.
To be continued....I have to go to work
Originally posted by Joe FistYou know what an AT-AT is though right? They are mentioned in the films and having seen one, I'm sure you could guess what an AT-ST is?
So let me get this straight:
The semantics of whether or not the Ewoks "won" the battle deems us "nerds" but the idea of you knowing what an "AT-ST" is does not? I honestly had no idea what an "AT-ST" is and I am sure I have seen each of the triology about 10-15 times each.
To be continued....I have to go to work
All Terrain- Armoured Transport
All Terrain - Scout Transport
You really didn't know what one was?
I suppose this is kind of possible if you have never played any of the computer games based on the films, I always knew them as scout walkers until I played Galaxies. Surprising, but possible.
Do you know what Kashyyyk is?
Originally posted by Joe FistI'm a start wars fan and a game geek, hence my somewhat "nerdish" knowledge of what an AT-ST is.
So let me get this straight:
The semantics of whether or not the Ewoks "won" the battle deems us "nerds" but the idea of you knowing what an "AT-ST" is does not? I honestly had no idea what an "AT-ST" is and I am sure I have seen each of the triology about 10-15 times each.
To be continued....I have to go to work
I'm not the one playing with semantics. It's only when you state "the ewoks could never win against stormtroopers" that it seems "unbelievable"...
MÅ¥HÅRM
Originally posted by MayharmMy post continued:
Ah so you [b]did watch the film then 🙂 This is what I was looking for:
"assisted the Rebels in taking control of the base on Endor"
That's right, whether or not they were ewoks or wookies the stormies would've eventually toasted them, but the battle was actually won by the rebels being freed, an AT-ST being captured by one hero c ...[text shortened]... it too "conveniant".
None of that won the battle though, so what's the problem?
MÅ¥HÅRM[/b]
It's perfectly believeable that the ewoks could knock some stormies unconscious with rocks or strangle them with bolas, your own history should be enough proof for that. Ropes between trees and lassoos make even more sense for the speederbikes than the same tricks do for horse-riders in westerns.
Show me the history where this takes place. I will grant that there would be isolated incidents where several Ewoks would overpower some troopers given their familiarity with their terrain but this would be few and far between.
Tree-traps...well ok, those are a bit too "conveniant".
Gee, you think?
None of that won the battle though, so what's the problem?
Are you kidding me? The Ewoks were far more than just a distraction. They were portrayed as an integral part of the victory or "assistance" or whatever you want to call it. Do you think the Rebels would have pulled it off without their help? The Empire had the technology to create several Death Stars, all types of transport for pretty much all terrains, much more superior weaponry and the idea that these things even made a significant contribution to the Rebel victory is embarrassing.
Originally posted by MayharmNow I question how much you have seen the movies? Let's put up your pygmies against any of the troops (pick your side, it wouldn't matter) fighting in Iraq. It is an apt comparison. If you agree that Chewbacca is your typical "Wookie":
Ever heard of the pygmies?
Never underestimate people 'cos they're small, especially when you have essentially "unarmed" opponents against guys with guns, wookies just make bigger targets.
MÅ¥HÅRM
1.They appear to be significantly stronger and larger than many (definitely stronger than the Ewok)
2.They are adept at using or learning to use both weaponry and transport.
As I indicated before, if Endor was inhabited by Wookies then I could have bought into the victory much more. Instead, it was muppets that won.
Originally posted by StarrmanYou know what an AT-AT is though right? They are mentioned in the films and having seen one, I'm sure you could guess what an AT-ST is?
You know what an AT-AT is though right? They are mentioned in the films and having seen one, I'm sure you could guess what an AT-ST is?
All Terrain- Armoured Transport
All Terrain - Scout Transport
You really didn't know what one was?
I suppose this is kind of possible if you have never played any of the computer games based on the films, I al ...[text shortened]... walkers until I played Galaxies. Surprising, but possible.
Do you know what Kashyyyk is?
Yes, I know what an "AT-AT" is. It was one of those four legged walker things the Empire used on Hoth. I take great pride in not knowing what the acronym stood for and I take more pride in not knowing what the "AT-ST" acronym, either. By the way, you are way out in front of the "nerd" pooling. 🙂
I suppose this is kind of possible if you have never played any of the computer games based on the films, I always knew them as scout walkers until I played Galaxies. Surprising, but possible.
Never read any of the books, nor have I really played any of the games. My knowledge is solely based on the movies themselves which I don't believe they tell you what the acronyms stand for.
Do you know what Kashyyyk is?
Again, with pride, no idea. I'm pretty sure you have swept the nerd awards, congrats 🙂
Originally posted by MayharmI'm a start wars fan and a game geek, hence my somewhat "nerdish" knowledge of what an AT-ST is.
I'm a start wars fan and a game geek, hence my somewhat "nerdish" knowledge of what an AT-ST is.
I'm not the one playing with semantics. It's only when you state "the ewoks could never win against stormtroopers" that it seems "unbelievable"...
MÅ¥HÅRM
Somewhat?
I'm not the one playing with semantics. It's only when you state "the ewoks could never win against stormtroopers" that it seems "unbelievable"...
Well let's recap:
I made the statement that the Ewoks won on Endor. You indicated I was wrong so I adjusted my statement to say they "assisted" the Alliance and you were okay with that. But now I even retract my adjustment. The Empire, as I recall, did not discriminate when on Endor and were slaughtering the Ewoks. In assisting the Rebels gain control of the base, the Ewoks won too. I never indicated the "Ewoks" by themselves beat the Empire. To argue this point was moot to begin with as we both seem somewhat knowledgeable in the subject.
Originally posted by Joe FistSeeing as you accept that "isolated incidents" could happen that will do, I'm not setting out to prove that the aborignes should have repelled the british or the indians the spanish...
My post continued:
[b] It's perfectly believeable that the ewoks could knock some stormies unconscious with rocks or strangle them with bolas, your own history should be enough proof for that. Ropes between trees and lassoos make even more sense for the speederbikes than the same tricks do for horse-riders in westerns.
Show me the history where t ...[text shortened]... a that these things even made a significant contribution to the Rebel victory is embarrassing.
[/b]
"The Ewoks were far more than just a distraction. They were portrayed as an integral part of the victory or "assistance" or whatever you want to call it."
I should have checked your chess rating before starting this...in war a "distraction" can most certainly be a VERY integral part to any battle. It doesn't matter how ultimately fruitless their fight, or how hopeless the cause, or how pitifull their efforts. They distracted the stormtroopers. If they hadn't done so the rebels most certainly wouldn't have acheived a thing, certainly the sheild would never have been taken down. I call that integral, but that doesn't mean I call it anything other than a distraction.
"The Empire had the technology to create several Death Stars, all types of transport for pretty much all terrains, much more superior weaponry and the idea that these things even made a significant contribution to the Rebel victory is embarrassing."
lol! See, I bet this is the real reason for you isn't it? It's got NOTHING to do with whether they were capable of doing it, it's whether they made the good guys look "cool" or dorks in doing it. 😵
MÅ¥HÅRM
Originally posted by Joe Fist" Let's put up your pygmies against any of the troops (pick your side, it wouldn't matter) fighting in Iraq. It is an apt comparison."
Now I question how much you have seen the movies? Let's put up your pygmies against any of the troops (pick your side, it wouldn't matter) fighting in Iraq. It is an apt comparison. If you agree that Chewbacca is your typical "Wookie":
1.They appear to be significantly stronger and larger than many (definitely stronger than the Ewok)
2.They are a ...[text shortened]... Wookies then I could have bought into the victory much more. Instead, it was muppets that won.
No it's not apt.
Put any of the iraqi combatants in the jungle with the pygmies, then it's apt.
1) Guns make strength irrelevant. You have to be up close for that strength to make any difference. Size, as I mentioned, just makes a bigger target.
2) If you give the wookies any kind of sophisticated weaponry, the empire would never have been stupid enough to set up base on their planet. To fit in with the plot they have to be a primitive people.
MÅ¥HÅRM
1 edit
Originally posted by MayharmOriginally posted by Mayharm
[b]" Let's put up your pygmies against any of the troops (pick your side, it wouldn't matter) fighting in Iraq. It is an apt comparison."
No it's not apt.
Put any of the iraqi combatants in the jungle with the pygmies, ...[text shortened]... ith the plot they have to be a primitive people.
MÅ¥HÅRM[/b]
Seeing as you accept that "isolated incidents" could happen that will do, I'm not setting out to prove that the aborignes should have repelled the british or the indians the spanish...
Sure you are. You have been attempting to do that the entire time. You’ve had this whole “never underestimate the little guy” sermon the entire time and the only place it holds up is in ROTJ, inaccurately.
I should have checked your chess rating before starting this...in war a "distraction" can most certainly be a VERY integral part to any battle.
LOL!!! Sorry, I didn’t know it was beneath you to converse with us “mouth breathers”. I realize you must be very busy splitting the atom or discovering new theories in quantum physics to associate with my kind.
It doesn't matter how ultimately fruitless their fight, or how hopeless the cause, or how pitiful their efforts. They distracted the stormtroopers. If they hadn't done so the rebels most certainly wouldn't have acheived a thing, certainly the shield would never have been taken down. I call that integral, but that doesn't mean I call it anything other than a distraction.
I think you are strange and you just proved my point. You are saying the Ewoks were a just a distraction yet they were integral to the Rebels success.
My previous post:
The Ewoks were far more than just a distraction. They were portrayed as an integral part of the victory or "assistance" or whatever you want to call it.
So what exactly are you arguing? They were a distraction but the Rebels could not have won without their help, right? So I wrote they were far more than just a distraction, they were an integral part of the Rebel’s success.
lol! See, I bet this is the real reason for you isn't it? It's got NOTHING to do with whether they were capable of doing it, it's whether they made the good guys look "cool" or dorks in doing it. 😵
Ummm no and I now think you are even stranger than before. As I indicated before, if Lucas had stuck to his original idea and Wookies would have been the inhabitants of Endor and the rest played out, as it did, then it would have worked better.
No it's not apt. Put any of the iraqi combatants in the jungle with the pygmies, then it's apt.
Fine, put them wherever you want. The Iraqi combatants have sophisticated weapons. The pygmies have spears. Hmmm, tough call there.
1) Guns make strength irrelevant. You have to be up close for that strength to make any difference. Size, as I mentioned, just makes a bigger target.
You’re right. It does make strength irrelevant. If you can be shot, then I don’t need to physically fight you. Pygmies don’t have guns. Neither did the Ewoks. The Iraqi combatants as well as the stormtroopers did.
2) If you give the wookies any kind of sophisticated weaponry, the empire would never have been stupid enough to set up base on their planet. To fit in with the plot they have to be a primitive people.
MÅ¥HÅRM[/b]
So how does it make more sense that the Empire did not slaughter every last Ewok when they were such a primitive people? The collaborative effort/distraction of the Rebels?
1 edit
Originally posted by MayharmYou know what?
[b]" Let's put up your pygmies against any of the troops (pick your side, it wouldn't matter) fighting in Iraq. It is an apt comparison."
No it's not apt.
Put any of the iraqi combatants in the jungle with the pygmies, ...[text shortened]... ith the plot they have to be a primitive people.
MÅ¥HÅRM[/b]
I am actually weary of this conversation so I probably won't respond to yours. I'm sure you will most likely chalk it up to your mental superiority or whatever and that's fine with me. I could careless. Hope you and yours have a happy holidays 🙂
Fist
Originally posted by Joe FistPlease explain to me why/how a distraction is "more" than a distraction just because it is "integral"?
Originally posted by Mayharm
[b]Seeing as you accept that "isolated incidents" could happen that will do, I'm not setting out to prove that the aborignes should have repelled the british or the indians the spanish...
Sure you are. You have been attempting to do that the entire time. You’ve had this whole “never underestimate the little ...[text shortened]... k when they were such a primitive people? The collaborative effort/distraction of the Rebels?
[/b]
Please explain to me what is the big difference between a wookie throwing a bola, dropping rocks from the trees, tying ropes, cutting ropes, etc. and an ewok? As already noted, strength makes no difference to any of those actions, so why on earth would them being wookies make any tactical difference?
"Sure you are. You have been attempting to do that the entire time. You’ve had this whole “never underestimate the little guy” sermon the entire time and the only place it holds up is in ROTJ, inaccurately."
To repel the british or spanish would have taken 100+ battle of endors. The battle of endor was singular, lasted...oh say an hour? And they had the support from the rebels. In no way is my argument stating that the ewoks would have won a WAR, only that they could win that BATTLE in that way, under those circumstances.
Had it lasted any longer, the imperials would have gotten re-inforced, probably gotten air-support (which was otherwise engaged at the time) and there wouldn't be any argument about who would win.
Had the imperials had more men outside the back door they would not have been temporarily overwhelmed. (when you watch the film, count how many imps you see and how many ewoks are being represented, bearing in mind lucas couldn't just hire an entire village of dwarfs)
The comment regarding your rating was simply to point out that you may not understand how to properly weigh up the various strategic and tactical advantages of each side. I meant no disrespect as such...
What's a "mouth breather"?
MÅ¥HÅRM
Originally posted by StarrmanHey Starrman,
You know what an AT-AT is though right? They are mentioned in the films and having seen one, I'm sure you could guess what an AT-ST is?
All Terrain- Armoured Transport
All Terrain - Scout Transport
You really didn't know what one was?
I suppose this is kind of possible if you have never played any of the computer games based on the films, I al ...[text shortened]... walkers until I played Galaxies. Surprising, but possible.
Do you know what Kashyyyk is?
I meant no offense by my "nerd" references to you and sorry if they came out as such. I was in the middle of my debate with Mayharm and assumed he was the author of that post.
Fist