Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    14 Jan '21 10:06
    Many Americans (including 'liberals' ) have been arguing that Donald Trump
    must not be prosecuted and sent to prison because it would 'too divisive'.
    Most Americans supposedly could not bear the sight of any former President in prison.
    The spectacle would tear Americans' souls apart. Helpless children would be traumatized.
    It's better to pretend that Donald Trump did nothing criminal and cover up on his behalf.
    That's the great American Way, isn't it?

    But Koreans evidently are made of sterner stuff than fragile Americans.
    A ROK President was impeached, convicted of corruption, and originally
    sentenced to thirty years in prison. The Supreme Court has upheld
    her sentence of twenty years. She received no leniency due to her gender.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/s-koreas-top-court-upholds-ex-presidents-20-year-jail-term/ar-BB1cJwvD?ocid=msedgntp

    "S. Korea's top court upholds ex-president's 20-year jail term"

    "South Korea's top court upheld a 20-year prison sentence for
    disgraced former president Park Geun-hye on Thursday, in the
    final ruling over the corruption scandal that brought her down."

    "The country's first female president was impeached in 2017
    after huge street protests against her rule.

    She was convicted the following year of bribery and abuse of power
    and jailed for 30 years. A series of appeals, a retrial and further
    appeals followed which reduced her sentence to 20 years.

    On Thursday, the case went for a second time before the Supreme
    Court, which said it accepted and confirmed the 20-year sentence.
    The court also upheld fines and forfeits totalling 21.5 billion won (US$19.5 million)."

    "In addition, she has separately been sentenced to two years in
    prison -- to run consecutively -- for election law violations."

    Surely, South Koreans have much to learn from their great American teachers
    about how to treat their former Presidents.
  2. Standard membermchill
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    14 Jan '21 10:422 edits
    @duchess64 said
    Many Americans (including 'liberals' ) have been arguing that Donald Trump
    must not be prosecuted and sent to prison because it would 'too divisive'.
    Most Americans supposedly could not bear the sight of any former President in prison.
    The spectacle would tear Americans' souls apart. Helpless children would be traumatized.
    It's better to pretend that Donald Trump did n ...[text shortened]... s have much to learn from their great American teachers
    about how to treat their former Presidents.
    That's the great American Way, isn't it?


    Many Americans think this way, while others do not. The concept of imprisoning a President is something of an anomaly. If one President is sent to prison, this may set an uncomfortable precedent, whereby the legal system can be weaponized as a political tool to neatly dispose of a President by the opposing political party, who wishes that person gone. Frankly, I think this fear is somewhat misplaced, and can think of no other President in our history who so richly deserves prison than Donald J Trump. Once out of office, he still has to answer for a multitude of state and federal crimes, including fraud, income tax evasion, campaign finance violations, and emoluments violations, and may even face charges of obstruction of justice regarding the Mueller investigation. I don't know if prison will be in his future, but do know his legal and financial situation is a very dark one.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-trump-faces-lawsuits-and-legal-threats/
  3. Subscriberdivegeester
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    14 Jan '21 10:472 edits
    @duchess64 said
    Many Americans (including 'liberals' ) have been arguing that Donald Trump
    must not be prosecuted and sent to prison because it would 'too divisive'.
    The only bad thing which absolutely must not happen to Trump is assassination. It will turn him into a martyr.

    He must however be dragged through Congress and the courts to face any and all legitimate charges against him.
  4. Standard memberbadradger
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    14 Jan '21 10:55
    @divegeester said
    The only bad thing which absolutely must not happen to Trump is assassination. It will turn him into a martyr.

    He must however be dragged through Congress and the courts to face any and all legitimate charges against him.
    A shooter in a grassy knoll is far to good for Trump.
  5. Subscribermedullah
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    14 Jan '21 10:561 edit
    Sorry but little of this is likely to happen

    If you go on to Parlay you will see that Trump has already invoked the Isurrection Act

    If i was a gambling man I would bet that this stuff around a second impeachment is probably an attempt to take the heat off counter charges of criminaliity.

    Executive Order 13959 was announced directly (24 hours) before this all kicked off.
  6. SubscriberKewpie
    since 1-Feb-07
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    14 Jan '21 11:09
    @medullah said
    Sorry but little of this is likely to happen

    If you go on to Parlay you will see that Trump has already invoked the Isurrection Act

    If i was a gambling man I would bet that this stuff around a second impeachment is probably an attempt to take the heat off counter charges of criminaliity.

    Executive Order 13959 was announced directly (24 hours) before this all kicked off.
    According to both Reuters and Snopes, this is a totally fake newsstory. Also Politifact. Can you provide us with any actual evidence that they're all wrong?
  7. Subscribermedullah
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    14 Jan '21 11:421 edit
    Go on to Parlay and take a look
  8. SubscriberSuzianne
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    14 Jan '21 11:45
    @medullah said
    Sorry but little of this is likely to happen

    If you go on to Parlay you will see that Trump has already invoked the Isurrection Act

    If i was a gambling man I would bet that this stuff around a second impeachment is probably an attempt to take the heat off counter charges of criminaliity.

    Executive Order 13959 was announced directly (24 hours) before this all kicked off.
    Do you possibly mean Parler?
  9. Subscribermedullah
    Lover of History
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    14 Jan '21 11:52
    @Suzianne

    No to my knowledge parler has gone

    Parlay (educational)
  10. SubscriberKewpie
    since 1-Feb-07
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    14 Jan '21 12:232 edits
    Google can't find parlay as a webpage. Parley is an eco site. I'll stick to the sources I listed, thanks.
    The Reuter site has a fact check on the story, very detailed, which shows that it was a fake Parler account.
  11. Zugzwang
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    14 Jan '21 12:48
    @mchill said
    That's the great American Way, isn't it?


    Many Americans think this way, while others do not. The concept of imprisoning a President is something of an anomaly. If one President is sent to prison, this may set an uncomfortable precedent, whereby the legal system can be weaponized as a political tool to neatly dispose of a President by the opposing political party, who wish ...[text shortened]... a very dark one.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-trump-faces-lawsuits-and-legal-threats/
    Most Americans used to believe that every American child should be taught to
    revere every US President. For a long time, American journalists did not report
    scandals (such as Presidents' sexual encounters) that now would be headline news.

    Of course, by the time (at the latest) that Barack Obama became President, most
    Americans had stopped believing that children should be taught to revere *every* President.
    There's no way that many white Americans could respect, let alone revere, Barack Obama.
  12. Subscribershavixmir
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    14 Jan '21 16:40
    There is obviously something to say for the argument that politicians should be exempt from prosecution.

    A bit like diplomatic immunity or job protection when doing union work, etc.

    What you don’t want is the democratically elected body having decision making influenced by threats of retribution.

    So, although I do completely agree with impeachment processes and the ability to to democratically remove individuals and even presidents, I generally don’t think it’s good for a democracy to be able to punish them for decision making.

    It’s also very hard to judge behaviour. We don’t have all the facts policy executives have.

    Something like rape, murder, corruption is maybe a different kettle of fish. I don’t dare comment on that.
    But would you want your democratically elected body jailed for murder, when a newly elected body finds their war illegal or something?
    Just something to ponder.
    And yes, it is different than murdering your wife.

    As for the case in hand: yes. The man needed impeaching. And I seriously think the republicans should ban him from their party.
    But I don’t feel a jail sentence would be in the US’s best interest in the long run.
  13. Zugzwang
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    14 Jan '21 17:09
    @shavixmir said
    There is obviously something to say for the argument that politicians should be exempt from prosecution.

    A bit like diplomatic immunity or job protection when doing union work, etc.

    What you don’t want is the democratically elected body having decision making influenced by threats of retribution.

    So, although I do completely agree with impeachment processes and the ...[text shortened]... m their party.
    But I don’t feel a jail sentence would be in the US’s best interest in the long run.
    After German reunification, the BRD government prosecuted Erich Honecker for
    what he did as the leader of the DDR.
  14. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    14 Jan '21 17:23
    @badradger said
    A shooter in a grassy knoll is far to good for Trump.
    If the same number of shooter as were gunning for JFK from the grassy knoll are gunning for Trump, he will be very safe indeed.
  15. Joined
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    14 Jan '21 17:23
    @kewpie said
    Google can't find parlay as a webpage. Parley is an eco site. I'll stick to the sources I listed, thanks.
    The Reuter site has a fact check on the story, very detailed, which shows that it was a fake Parler account.
    .........REUTERS is a trusted, reliable news source.
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