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  1. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    07 May '11 03:43
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13297573

    The UK has voted overwhelmingly to reject changing the way MPs are elected - dealing a bitter blow to Nick Clegg on top of heavy Lib Dem poll losses.

    Officials say 19.1m people voted in the second UK-wide referendum in history - a higher than expected turnout of 41%.

    The final result put the Yes vote at 32.1% and the No vote at 67.9%.

    It comes as the Lib Dems suffered a rout in English local elections - and the SNP scored an historic victory in the Scottish Parliament poll. [cont'd...]

    =====================================

    What could be the possible Lib Dem narrative arcs over the next 1-2 years?
  2. 07 May '11 08:25 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13297573

    The UK has voted overwhelmingly to reject changing the way MPs are elected - dealing a bitter blow to Nick Clegg on top of heavy Lib Dem poll losses.

    Officials say 19.1m people voted in the second UK-wide referendum in history - a higher than expected turnout of 41%.

    The final result put the Yes vote at 32. =================

    What could be the possible Lib Dem narrative arcs over the next 1-2 years?
    I was surprised that the result was so emphatic but finally we have closure, well at least for a while. The LibDems apparent power lies only in their current ability to form a coalition; but that is an oxymoron: power <> coalition. They have destroyed themselves as a viable party by playing their trump cards too quickly and inadvisedly. They should have negotiated harder with the Tories and probably gone with Labour anyway as Clegg would have faired better in a Labour love-nest. The AV referendum was the clincher that Cameron threw at Cleg - and he bought it. LibDems are dead in the water now.
  3. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    07 May '11 08:41
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I was surprised that the result was so emphatic but finally we have closure, well at least for a while. The LibDems apparent power lies only in their current ability to form a coalition; but that is an oxymoron: power <> coalition. They have destroyed themselves as a viable party by playing their trump cards too quickly and inadvisedly. They should ha ...[text shortened]... the clincher that Cameron threw at Cleg - and he bought it. LibDems are dead in the water now.
    Month/year of the next General Election?
  4. 07 May '11 09:41
    Originally posted by FMF
    Month/year of the next General Election?
    It's probably too early to guess, but I would be expecting the LibDems to gradually become more disruptive as they realise that their position within the coalition is untenable; something controversial over Europe or where their is a cross-party split may be their opportunity.
  5. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    07 May '11 09:57
    Originally posted by divegeester
    It's probably too early to guess, but I would be expecting the LibDems to gradually become more disruptive as they realise that their position within the coalition is untenable; something controversial over Europe or where their is a cross-party split may be their opportunity.
    Clegg to weather the storm without standing down?
  6. 07 May '11 10:13
    Originally posted by FMF
    Clegg to weather the storm without standing down?
    Why would he?
  7. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    07 May '11 10:47
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Why would he?
    To prove people who thought he couldn't weather the storm without standing down wrong. Perhaps.
  8. 07 May '11 16:22
    I sympathise with Clegg more than most people.

    Joining a coalition with the Tories was the right moral choice since they had the most votes... that he is forced to get chummy with the people his voters despise is obviously going to hurt him, but still, he done what was right.

    And this is the only time, i think, that the Lib Dems have had any real national power - and this is an achievement right? Did you want them to be a third place party forever?

    Okay, the problem with being in government is you have to deal with reality, not the fantasy world that you can project when you think you have no chance of being elected. He came a cropper with student fees when he realised he couldn't make the two fit.

    Basically, i think his real failure was not so much one of policy as of not playing politics well. He should have been making the Tories the scapegoats, fighting decisions (or pretending to)- not letting them shift the blame on to him.

    So yeah, he has been a failure but to paint him as some kind of demon (as many people have done) is unfair.
  9. 07 May '11 17:18
    Originally posted by FMF
    To prove people who thought he couldn't weather the storm without standing down wrong. Perhaps.
    Why would he stand down??

    Sorry...your just messing about again aren't you!
  10. 07 May '11 17:45
    Surprising result, choosing AV over FPTP seems like a no brainer to me. Then again, I suppose the average Briton hasn't really thought the consequences through.
  11. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    07 May '11 17:56
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Surprising result, choosing AV over FPTP seems like a no brainer to me. Then again, I suppose the average Briton hasn't really thought the consequences through.
    People don't adhere to a lot of your no brainer theories. What's wrong w/ them I wonder
  12. 07 May '11 17:58
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    People don't adhere to a lot of your no brainer theories. What's wrong w/ them I wonder
    Well, they obviously aren't as smart as me.
  13. 07 May '11 18:07 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Surprising result, choosing AV over FPTP seems like a no brainer to me. Then again, I suppose the average Briton hasn't really thought the consequences through.
    I don't get it either. But there is an argument that AV dilutes the either/or inevitability of British party politics which has help support the long-term stability of democracy in the UK; I'm not convinced it works only because people don't know what they are voting for and therefore 1 from 2 makes more sense. Edit: to the populace.
  14. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    07 May '11 21:07
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Surprising result, choosing AV over FPTP seems like a no brainer to me. Then again, I suppose the average Briton hasn't really thought the consequences through.
    The No campaign relied on plain lies such as the false claim AV would cost £250m. This was a stark demonstration of the cynical standards of British politics today.

    The Yes campaign relied on questionable claims about the possible benefits of AV - such as its improbable ability to reduce false expenses claims from MPs. It is hard to see why that showed any greater respect for the elctorate.

    Many Tories saw it as a party political issue and perhaps rightly so - they stand to gain from the present system in their cynical view.

    Many others saw it as an anti-Clegg vote and that's a no brainer too. His new style of politics looks suspiciously similar to having a Tory Government back in power without changing its spots, saving them the bother of having to win a majority and without the hassle of an effective opposition. Clegg destroys all the arguments against what Cameron is doing because he presents himself as a sort of wise third party with an objective view - he has no view at all from the dark space between Cameron while sitting down and Cameron's chair.

    The only politician who looked like he actually believed what he was saying was the Scottish Nationalist Alex Salmon, and he reaped the rewards. Shame that nationalism is such a strong vote catcher still.

    British politics stinks.
  15. 08 May '11 05:09 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    The No campaign relied on plain lies such as the false claim AV would cost £250m. This was a stark demonstration of the cynical standards of British politics today.

    The Yes campaign relied on questionable claims about the possible benefits of AV - such as its improbable ability to reduce false expenses claims from MPs. It is hard to see why that showed ards. Shame that nationalism is such a strong vote catcher still.

    British politics stinks.
    Name country where politics doesn't 'stink' or indeed never has. The British political system is pretty good I think. Commentators underestimate the collective insight of the electorate; AV was booted emphatically because it represents a vote for the LibDems and they are seen as a weak party. People want clear leadership and decisiveness especially in the current climate and whilst the Tories cuts are painful most people accept that belt-tightening is required.