@philokalia saidThere's a lot wrong with such a benign reading of the events of January 6th.
I can see how people more skeptical of Trump than I would believe this. It isn't unreasonable, especially if you believe that Trump uses populism to get what he wants and is not an authentic populist...
But he did not commit a crime because incitement should never be a crime.
... I also do not think this is true because what would have disrupting the counting proces ...[text shortened]... itely, throwing an effective coup...
Trump wanted a loud protest. He got it. Maybe that is fair.
Trump said far more than "I want a loud protest"; he said that the election was being stolen and if the mob didn't do something drastic, they'd lose their country. Whether it was logical or not, it was certainly in the minds of the rioters that they might be able to not only disrupt the process, but by threats of violence force officials like the Vice President to not fulfill their required Constitutional duties. Trump's legal team had created a number of dubious scenarios where the count could be essentially nullified and a Constitutional crisis created. Surely, that was in his and the crowd's mind. And if they had succeeded in making large numbers of members of Congress hostage, it would have been extraordinarily difficult to retake the building without mass bloodshed.
When discussing the events in Ukraine in 2014, I pointed out how radical nationalists took control of government buildings including where the Parliament sat leading to the unconstitutional removal of the President. So I don't find a belief that such a thing is impossible very convincing.
@no1marauder saidThe Ukraine coup is an interesting parallel, truly. I support the idea that the 2014 event was a CIA-backed and sponsored coup and that it sparked the civil war that has led to the current crisis. It was a fantastic geopolitical maneuver and blunder.
There's a lot wrong with such a benign reading of the events of January 6th.
Trump said far more than "I want a loud protest"; he said that the election was being stolen and if the mob didn't do something drastic, they'd lose their country. Whether it was logical or not, it was certainly in the minds of the rioters that they might be able to not only disrupt the proces ...[text shortened]... removal of the President. So I don't find a belief that such a thing is impossible very convincing.
At the same time, I find major issues with what happened in the 2020 election:
- American oligarch Zuckerberg investing $350 million via charity in the election vote harvesting process
- America has a history of vote harvesting & election fraud
- The most opaque election ever as the bulk of ballots are mail-in
- Strange events in key districts (the pipeline burst)
- The 'mules' information shared by Dinesh D'Souza
- Perhaps even more importantly, the media collusion: the attempt to bury the Hunter Biden laptop and trash the story all-together only for it to come out as true and reliable information.
What a mess.
I think it is not unlikely that the Deep State put its hand on the scale. Even if that was not the case, even if the 2020 election was a mail-in ballot situation in which we can fully believe the results between two inconsequential centrist candidates...
I think people would actually look at the process itself and want to reform it for the next time such a thing would have to occur.
What a big topic - I appreciate any response but I cannot promise to respond at length on it.
@vivify saidThanks for the information - I appreciate it.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/climate/trump-environment-rollbacks-list.html
Trump significantly reduced restrictions on pollution, including:Revoked a rule that prevented coal companies from dumping mining debris into local streams.
Weakened a rule that aimed to limit toxic discharge from power plants into public waterways.
I don't know if this is still the case under Biden but during Trump's term it was legal.
I think this is a disastrous policy and do not appreciate it, though I can say that it is not unexpected, lol.
The left/right dichotomy makes clowns of the conservatives when it comes to environment and healthcare, and clowns of the left when it comes to sensible immigration and gender politics, IMO.
@vivify saidWhat deaths?
It's not just lying, it's the harassment and death threats that resulted from those lies.
Protests are meant to disrupt. That is how you get change. You don't accomplish anything by pleasing the people you are angry at. Common sense.
Again, you are calling something a lie without evidence. Stop doing that.
@vivify saidBiden's policies have resulted in more coal burning worldwide. That is the result of high oil prices caused by sanctions and don't blame Putin for sanctions.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/climate/trump-environment-rollbacks-list.html
Trump significantly reduced restrictions on pollution, including:Revoked a rule that prevented coal companies from dumping mining debris into local streams.
Weakened a rule that aimed to limit toxic discharge from power plants into public waterways.
I don't know if this is still the case under Biden but during Trump's term it was legal.
@vivify saidA child having been caught doing something naughty "But such and such told me to do it."
It's not just lying, it's the harassment and death threats that resulted from those lies.
Parent: "If such and such told you go jump in the lake, would you do that?"
Children are expected to grasp this simple concept, but we've seen here from a few posters that they'd like to blame Alex Jones for complete strangers making death threats against the families. Those making the death threats are the ones to be chased down for $4 million dollars.
@no1marauder saidIf the election was stolen protests are necessary to fix the problem.
There's a lot wrong with such a benign reading of the events of January 6th.
Trump said far more than "I want a loud protest"; he said that the election was being stolen and if the mob didn't do something drastic, they'd lose their country. Whether it was logical or not, it was certainly in the minds of the rioters that they might be able to not only disrupt the proces ...[text shortened]... removal of the President. So I don't find a belief that such a thing is impossible very convincing.
If the election was not stolen why did the corporate news media lie and say mail in voting would not increase voter fraud? That was the real big lie.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/heed-jimmy-carter-on-the-danger-of-mail-in-voting-11586557667
You are suggesting we believe the liars. Why do you believe the liars?
@philokalia saidHillary Clinton advanced a crazy line about Tulsi Gabbard being a Russian asset.
OK, I see, but I think that it's odd for a court to be able to give Jones' money to someone else over this.
It's not as if Jones has just failed in his contractual obligations as a business to these people.
He advanced a crazy line about Sandy Hook all being fake.
Tulsi sued HRC for it. Should she have gotten 50 million for it?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/27/politics/tulsi-gabbard-clinton-lawsuit/index.html
Why did Tulsi drop the lawsuit? Hillary was election meddling by spreading baseless conspiracy theories. What about that big lie?
@shavixmir saidHey, easy, we don't claim him, he's from across the pond.
Oh the wit.
Jesus man, go back to masturbating over nude koala photos, or whatever else it is you Aussie incels do.
@shavixmir saidAnd being a kiwi, its not nude koala photos, but a pair of comfy rubber boots with which to anchor the sheep.
Oh the wit.
Jesus man, go back to masturbating over nude koala photos, or whatever else it is you Aussie incels do.
@metal-brain saidThat's not as clearly false as claiming slaughtered children were just actors, is it?
Hillary Clinton advanced a crazy line about Tulsi Gabbard being a Russian asset.
Tulsi sued HRC for it. Should she have gotten 50 million for it?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/27/politics/tulsi-gabbard-clinton-lawsuit/index.html
Why did Tulsi drop the lawsuit? Hillary was election meddling by spreading baseless conspiracy theories. What about that big lie?
And Tulsi didn't receive death threats because it like the parents of those children.
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@vivify said"And Tulsi didn't receive death threats because it like the parents of those children."
That's not as clearly false as claiming slaughtered children were just actors, is it?
And Tulsi didn't receive death threats because it like the parents of those children.
How do you know? She has received death threats. I am not sure why, but you should not assume anything.
Hillary was election meddling by spreading baseless conspiracy theories. She got away with it because she didn't name Tulsi, but everybody knew who she was talking about and it did plenty of harm to Tulsi's campaign for POTUS.
If you are going to quote AJ provide your source of information. Your quotes could be false for all I know. Phil Anselmo said publicly that Dimebag Darrel deserved a severe beating. It was a stupid thing for him to say, but he didn't call for his death.
Dimebag's brother and girlfriend blamed Phil for Dimebag's death and was not allowed at the funeral.
Was Phil at fault? Did he deserve the hate because some mentally ill guy took him too seriously and decided a severe beating wasn't enough?
@philokalia saidThe place to litigate claims of election fraud is the courts and the Republicans and Trump Campaign filed well over 50 lawsuits. All were found to be without merit.
The Ukraine coup is an interesting parallel, truly. I support the idea that the 2014 event was a CIA-backed and sponsored coup and that it sparked the civil war that has led to the current crisis. It was a fantastic geopolitical maneuver and blunder.
At the same time, I find major issues with what happened in the 2020 election:
- American oligarch Zuckerberg i ...[text shortened]... r.
What a big topic - I appreciate any response but I cannot promise to respond at length on it.
A legitimate Plan B isn't a violent takeover of the Capitol to coerce the Vice President and/or members of Congress to not fulfill their Constitutional duty.
@no1marauder saidIt can always be said that a movement should occur only in the Courts, but where would we be if the black Americans only fought their movement in the courts..? It could eventually happen, but only after decades of more suffering.
The place to litigate claims of election fraud is the courts and the Republicans and Trump Campaign filed well over 50 lawsuits. All were found to be without merit.
A legitimate Plan B isn't a violent takeover of the Capitol to coerce the Vice President and/or members of Congress to not fulfill their Constitutional duty.
The free right to assemble (and protest) is a vital one for the exercise of democracy through the expression of discontent.
agree with them or not, it is their right to assemble and protest and be disruptive.
Of course some J6 protesters were violent or trespassing and went too far, but the exact same is true for the BLM protesters, and to call either one of these groups universally bad is wrong, and to imply that their rights to protect should be squashed is also wrong.
@philokalia saidNo one said they couldn't protest so you are attacking a Strawman.
It can always be said that a movement should occur only in the Courts, but where would we be if the black Americans only fought their movement in the courts..? It could eventually happen, but only after decades of more suffering.
The free right to assemble (and protest) is a vital one for the exercise of democracy through the expression of discontent.
agree with th ...[text shortened]... niversally bad is wrong, and to imply that their rights to protect should be squashed is also wrong.