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Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    16 Feb '19 16:12
    NYC council member Jimmy Van Bramer says it is outrageous that Amazon will not allow their workers to organize. Amazon might just fine it outrageous that Jimmy is sticking his nose into their Board Room. Why can’t Amazon decide on how to run its business? Jimmy is upset that Amazon won’t do what Jimmy wants them to do? What in the world?
  2. Standard memberHandyAndy
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    16 Feb '19 16:38
    @averagejoe1 said
    NYC council member Jimmy Van Bramer says it is outrageous that Amazon will not allow their workers to organize. Amazon might just fine it outrageous that Jimmy is sticking his nose into their Board Room. Why can’t Amazon decide on how to run its business? Jimmy is upset that Amazon won’t do what Jimmy wants them to do? What in the world?
    It's the law in NYC. The National Labor Relations Act guarantees the right of employees to organize and bargain collectively with their employers.
  3. Standard memberKellyJay
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    16 Feb '19 16:41
    @handyandy said
    It's the law in NYC. The National Labor Relations Act guarantees the right of employees to organize and bargain collectively with their employers.
    Is all about control.
  4. Subscriberno1marauder
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    16 Feb '19 16:50
    @kellyjay said
    Is all about control.
    It sure is; capitalist owners want to control their workers as much as possible and if they organize into unions that's a lot harder to do.
  5. Joined
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    16 Feb '19 21:15
    @handyandy said
    It's the law in NYC. The National Labor Relations Act guarantees the right of employees to organize and bargain collectively with their employers.
    I would think Amazon would have researched labor laws in NY? Why in the world, knowing they’d have to bow to a council requiring union control, did they pick NYC? I’ll check the WSJ.
  6. Joined
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    16 Feb '19 21:21
    @no1marauder said
    It sure is; capitalist owners want to control their workers as much as possible and if they organize into unions that's a lot harder to do.
    I agree. Unions used to have a purpose 60 years ago but they are poison to corporations now. I wouldn’t say they ‘control’ workers, They employ them, pay wage,provide benefits,give workers a choice to work there, or somewhere else. I love choice. It should be on a par with Liberty and Freedom.
  7. Standard memberHandyAndy
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    16 Feb '19 22:22
    @averagejoe1 said
    I would think Amazon would have researched labor laws in NY? Why in the world, knowing they’d have to bow to a council requiring union control, did they pick NYC? I’ll check the WSJ.
    Here's the story in the New York Times:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/business/economy/amazon-union-cuomo.html
  8. Standard memberHandyAndy
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    16 Feb '19 22:29
    @averagejoe1 said
    I agree. Unions used to have a purpose 60 years ago but they are poison to corporations now. I wouldn’t say they ‘control’ workers, They employ them, pay wage,provide benefits,give workers a choice to work there, or somewhere else. I love choice. It should be on a par with Liberty and Freedom.
    And workers should have the freedom to organize.
  9. SubscriberWajoma
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    16 Feb '19 22:401 edit
    @handyandy said
    And workers should have the freedom to organize.
    Yes of course they should, and Co's should have the freedom to hire union or non-union labor.

    Everyone's happy.

    Edit: Recently the car industry shut down in Aus. The union at the time was negotiating member wages down, you could look at this two ways, they were trying to keep the Holden plant open, or they could see all those lovely membership dues flying out the window.
  10. Joined
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    17 Feb '19 00:52
    @handyandy said
    And workers should have the freedom to organize.
    Of course, I am serious here. If I have a factory of 100 workers and 20 or 50 of them come to me and plead their case for more wages or conditions or whatever, it is up to me, as the owner of the business that I built at risk over my life, to make a decision, and if they dont like it, they can leave. Freedom, Liberty. Go for it. I might even say yall pop around every monday morning, tell me what is going on. If I can live without you, I will meet your demands. If you are replaceable, then good luck, you have a right to quit. All this is good. BAD is when they get a union who charges dues and screws both them and the company up. Read the history. They are on the way out. Yes, the workers can organize all they want at my company. Actually, they do.
  11. Standard memberHandyAndy
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    17 Feb '19 01:43
    @averagejoe1 said
    Of course, I am serious here. If I have a factory of 100 workers and 20 or 50 of them come to me and plead their case for more wages or conditions or whatever, it is up to me, as the owner of the business that I built at risk over my life, to make a decision, and if they dont like it, they can leave. Freedom, Liberty. Go for it. I might even say yall pop around every ...[text shortened]... are on the way out. Yes, the workers can organize all they want at my company. Actually, they do.
    Good is when they form a union, get an agreement on wages, benefits and working conditions... and a signed contract.
  12. Joined
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    17 Feb '19 14:28
    @handyandy said
    Good is when they form a union, get an agreement on wages, benefits and working conditions... and a signed contract.
    And I would not deny a bunch of workers asking for things. This is America. America also gives me the right, as a guy who built a warehouse from scratch with borrowed money and dreams of success, to hear them out and make my unilateral decision to do what I want to do (with my business). If they hire some union people, those thugs will be trespassing on my property and I can call the police. Libs dont understand what breaking the law is, but that is law-breaking.
    During our little meeting, I will agree to give them all a raise and get another water cooler. They will then say, can we have a signed contract? I will probably go along with a signed contract for those who are indispensable, employees I don't want to lose. These are guys who will run the operation while I go play golf. These are guys who are so valuable, that to keep them I will let them buy a SHARE of the Company from me!!! Folks not under contract are free to do as they wish. If they work hard and become valuable, I will offer them a share. Hey guys, that is how it all works.
  13. Subscriberno1marauder
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    17 Feb '19 14:352 edits
    @averagejoe1 said
    And I would not deny a bunch of workers asking for things. This is America. America also gives me the right, as a guy who built a warehouse from scratch with borrowed money and dreams of success, to hear them out and make my unilateral decision to do what I want to do (with my business). If they hire some union people, those thugs will be trespassing on my property and ...[text shortened]... they work hard and become valuable, I will offer them a share. Hey guys, that is how it all works.
    You don't seem to have much of an understanding of Labor Law. In the US, employees can form unions and the employer can't do anything about it or he is in violation of the law. And he must bargain in good faith with that union.

    If you ever do have a business with actual employees, I strongly suggest you talk to a lawyer about these laws or you'll likely to get yourself in a lot of trouble with the attitude you have.

    EDIT: Here's a helpful link: https://www.nlrb.gov/rights-we-protect/rights/employer-union-rights-and-obligations

    EDIT2: Here's a rather long list of things an employer can't do in response to union organizing: https://www.nlrb.gov/rights-we-protect/whats-law/employers/interfering-employee-rights-section-7-8a1
  14. Joined
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    17 Feb '19 14:49
    @averagejoe1 said
    NYC council member Jimmy Van Bramer says it is outrageous that Amazon will not allow their workers to organize. Amazon might just fine it outrageous that Jimmy is sticking his nose into their Board Room. Why can’t Amazon decide on how to run its business? Jimmy is upset that Amazon won’t do what Jimmy wants them to do? What in the world?
    The only thing a business is allowed to do is censor conservatives on web sites.

    Amazon should be made to bake cakes next.
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