America is not the greatest country in the world

Originally posted by Eladar
You guys don't have an income tax? You get to keep all the money you make?

Income tax for self employed persons is not deductible at source.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Income tax for self employed persons is not deductible at source.

It is here. You must make quarterly tax payments. Responsible people hold back what they owe and don't spend it.

Originally posted by Eladar
It is here. You must make quarterly tax payments. Responsible people hold back what they owe and don't spend it.

we must submit a tax return and accounts once a year if the latter are asked for, there is no necessity to pay any tax prior to this unless you want to voluntarily. You see that what you get for kicking out the British, you are more taxed now than you were under the British! Ironic considering.

Originally posted by Eladar
It is here. You must make quarterly tax payments. Responsible people hold back what they owe and don't spend it.

do you have a personal tax allowance before you need to pay any Tax? Here it is £7,500 ($12,500) and will rise to £10,000 ($16,578) before you need to pay a bean.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
do you have a personal tax allowance before you need to pay any Tax? Here it is £7,500 ($12,500) and will rise to £10,000 ($16,578) before you need to pay a bean.

As long as you have an income tax the government is making money from your labor. You said this was wrong. You fail to see the inconsistency of your position, but I'm not surprised by your blindness.

Originally posted by Eladar
As long as you have an income tax the government is making money from your labor. You said this was wrong. You fail to see the inconsistency of your position, but I'm not surprised by your blindness.

Hardly for I am not making money from anyone's efforts and as a Christian I am under duress to pay tax to the government and to obey it as far as it depends upon me to do so. No inconsistency. No moral dilemma, only a clear conscience and no fences facing.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Hardly for I am not making money from anyone's efforts and as a Christian I am under duress to pay tax to the government and to obey it as far as it depends upon me to do so. No inconsistency. No moral dilemma, only a clear conscience and no fences facing.

You are a Socialist who believes the government is correct in collecting money on others' labor. You are a hypocrite if you believe it is wrong to collect on other peoples' labor but think the government in right in doing so.

Originally posted by Eladar
You are a Socialist who believes the government is correct in collecting money on others' labor. You are a hypocrite if you believe it is wrong to collect on other peoples' labor but think the government in right in doing so.

First of all I am a Christian who for religious reasons is under duress to pay tax. Secondly I personally am making no money from the sweat of others and I baulk at the idea of doing so. Whether you, the government or anyone else does so is your affair. I am clean of the exploitation of others unlike you capitalists who live to exploit other people, especially the poor and needy. There is no hypocrisy present with me in this regard.

Originally posted by Eladar
You are a Socialist who believes the government is correct in collecting money on others' labor. You are a hypocrite if you believe it is wrong to collect on other peoples' labor but think the government in right in doing so.

Americans fought a war of independence in order to establish the right to their own government of the people, by the people and for the people. Their cry was not "no taxation" but "no taxation without representation." No taxation would mean no government. So just what is it you are advocating other than the cynical negation of the social order on which your liberties depend?

Originally posted by finnegan
Americans fought a war of independence in order to establish the right to their own government of the people, by the people and for the people. Their cry was not "no taxation" but "no taxation without representation." No taxation would mean no government. So just what is it you are advocating other than the cynical negation of the social order on which your liberties depend?

I know of no one advocating no taxation. Taxation which takes from one discreet group, in order to give to another isn't supported by taxation with representation.

Originally posted by normbenign
I know of no one advocating no taxation. Taxation which takes from one discreet group, in order to give to another isn't supported by taxation with representation.

It is supported by the current system of electing representatives who have the legislative voting power to tax you even if you voted for the one who said he wouldn't tax you. Are you saying each citizen should be able to opt out of paying any taxes he does not want to pay?

Originally posted by normbenign
I know of no one advocating no taxation. Taxation which takes from one discreet group, in order to give to another isn't supported by taxation with representation.

As long as you define "group" economically, for instance that the wealthy are a "group" distinct from the non wealthy, then all taxation must take from one group to benefit another group by definition, unless you advocate a magical world in which each individual receives back in full the value of their contribution.

Take a neutral example which you probably do not disapprove of. Insurance policies take from one group (the fortunate) to give to another group (the unfortunate) and if the fortunate people did not make a loss then the unfortunate people would not receive any benefit at all.

I now of no one advocating a taxation system that does not fall foul of your word games so in effect you, like Elador, are advocating no taxation. Splutter away - that is what you are saying. More importantly, what you are saying is nonsensical.

Originally posted by normbenign
I know of no one advocating no taxation. Taxation which takes from one discreet group, in order to give to another isn't supported by taxation with representation.

Taxation, by definition, takes from some and gives it to others.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Taxation, by definition, takes from some and gives it to others.

indeed it does and its therefore irrational to call it the American taxpayers money, its nothing of the sort, its the American governments money and they may do with it as they see fit.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
indeed it does and its therefore irrational to call it the American taxpayers money, its nothing of the sort, its the American governments money and they may do with it as they see fit.

So speaks the modern day serf.

The government does not need to tax personal income. It is a modern expansion of the government, putting the working person back on the Manor. Of course serfs see the Manor as your proper place so they see nothing wrong with it at all, it is only natural.