Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 27 Mar '13 09:53
    Not really. they just don't want anyone telling them they can't or shouldn't buy them.


    discuss?
  2. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    27 Mar '13 10:47 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    Not really. they just don't want anyone telling them they can't or shouldn't buy them.


    discuss?
    I'm sure there are many in America who fit that mindset, there are many others however who insist on having their gun(s) within reach 24/7, and they care very little at how many innocent lives are lost, as long as America's gun culture is not changed. For reasons that defy common sense, most American's don't relate guns, with gun related deaths...
  3. 08 Apr '13 16:30
    Originally posted by bill718
    I'm sure there are many in America who fit that mindset, there are many others however who insist on having their gun(s) within reach 24/7, and they care very little at how many innocent lives are lost, as long as America's gun culture is not changed. For reasons that defy common sense, most American's don't relate guns, with gun related deaths...
    For common sense reasons they don't relate. Just because you are a whacko doesn't mean the rest of us are.
  4. 08 Apr '13 16:40
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    Not really. they just don't want anyone telling them they can't or shouldn't buy them.


    discuss?
    "How many Americans personally own guns, and what do they use them for? A recent Gallup Poll* shows that 3 in 10 Americans personally own a gun;..."

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/20098/gun-ownership-use-america.aspx

    To your point, no one is pushing legislation "telling them they can't or shouldn't buy them" and a majority of Americans favor gun controls of the type being pushed. It is just that the gun lobby is waving that flag, and is threatening anyone who cooperates in any way with anything that will limit gun sales, and is pushing for measures that will increase gun sales, such as arming school personnel.
  5. 08 Apr '13 19:37
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    Not really. they just don't want anyone telling them they can't or shouldn't buy them.


    discuss?
    Guns are often valued but seldom used items. As such, many people might want a particular gun, but other priorities make them defer buying that pistol or rifle. However, when faced with a very real gun ban, or even that possibility, many of those intended purchases move way up the list of priorities.

    All the talk of gun bans, magazine bans, and ammunition bans, has had the effect of selling about ten years worth of guns in about six months.

    "they just don't want anyone telling them they can't or shouldn't buy them."

    That is the case with many. Same as drugs, gambling, 320z. soft drinks or prostitution. I don't use any of the above, but I don't want any self righteous do-gooder telling me I can't.
  6. 08 Apr '13 19:47
    Originally posted by bill718
    I'm sure there are many in America who fit that mindset, there are many others however who insist on having their gun(s) within reach 24/7, and they care very little at how many innocent lives are lost, as long as America's gun culture is not changed. For reasons that defy common sense, most American's don't relate guns, with gun related deaths...
    I own multiple guns, but I haven't fired a round in nearly a year. I do have a pistol in reach 24/7, but that has nothing to do with innocent lives lost. If I had no guns, the children and teachers at Sandy Hook would still be dead. The two things are not related in the least. Common sense is often non-sense. Guns and gun related deaths? How about water, and water related deaths? You do recognize that correlation is not causation.

    A and B exist together with C.

    A causes C

    B causes C

    A and B together cause C

    that they exist together is coincidence, or another variable, perhaps 2 or 3 more must be combined to produce C.
  7. 09 Apr '13 07:21
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    Not really. they just don't want anyone telling them they can't or shouldn't buy them.


    discuss?
    It depends on the gun. By far, most Americans support bans on various assault weapons and limitations on ammunition. But most support the right to hunting rifles, and probably most support the right to hand guns, though it depends on how you ask the question when you poll.
  8. 09 Apr '13 08:49
    Originally posted by normbenign
    How about water, and water related deaths? You do recognize that correlation is not causation.
    I know of several people who have had children drown in swimming pools. In the case of the relationship between the number of swimming pools and the number of deaths by drowning, is probably a sign of causation.
    As for guns, it would be fairly trivial to identify causation or not. Simply analyze statistics for places with varying amounts of gun ownership. Of course one would need to measure other possible factors such as poverty, culture etc, but I am sure it could be done. I am sure it has been done.
  9. 10 Apr '13 07:46
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I know of several people who have had children drown in swimming pools. In the case of the relationship between the number of swimming pools and the number of deaths by drowning, is probably a sign of causation.
    As for guns, it would be fairly trivial to identify causation or not. Simply analyze statistics for places with varying amounts of gun ownership ...[text shortened]... actors such as poverty, culture etc, but I am sure it could be done. I am sure it has been done.
    A friend of mine suggested that the lack of gun massacres in Europe might have less to do with gun restrictions and more to do with superior mental health systems. I don't know about that, but I agree that there ought to be a comprehensive policy approach.
  10. 10 Apr '13 17:01
    Originally posted by bill718
    For reasons that defy common sense, most American's don't relate guns, with gun related deaths...
    For reasons that defy common sense, some people don't relate assault rifles with peaceful protest.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjqbGbht5IA
  11. 10 Apr '13 22:21
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I know of several people who have had children drown in swimming pools. In the case of the relationship between the number of swimming pools and the number of deaths by drowning, is probably a sign of causation.
    As for guns, it would be fairly trivial to identify causation or not. Simply analyze statistics for places with varying amounts of gun ownership ...[text shortened]... actors such as poverty, culture etc, but I am sure it could be done. I am sure it has been done.
    It has indeed been done, and relationship is inverse.
  12. 10 Apr '13 22:24
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    A friend of mine suggested that the lack of gun massacres in Europe might have less to do with gun restrictions and more to do with superior mental health systems. I don't know about that, but I agree that there ought to be a comprehensive policy approach.
    That is a strong possibility. Reliance on drugs to stabalize mentally imbalanced people is fairly common in the US, especially with young people, and the starter drug Ritalin is often prescribed by social workers or school nurses. Almost every mass shooter in the US recently has had a history of psychotropic drug use.
  13. 10 Apr '13 22:28
    Originally posted by MoneyManMike
    For reasons that defy common sense, some people don't relate assault rifles with peaceful protest.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjqbGbht5IA
    I liked the guy with the lever action rifle with a suppressor mounted.